04-10-1973 Supporting DocumentsMINUTES N4 008
i(JU;Ul.Ait MIXTIMC
tho
Chambers otneTuesdayf Aprilthe i10,C197311 of Thethe meeting wasClermont
towas
orderhold
atn7:30 Council
by Mayor Don E. Smith with the following members present: Councilman Schroodol, P.M.
Beats and Smoak. Other officials present were: City Manager Hopkins, City Attorney
Vason, Director of Community Services Smythe, Director of Public Utilities Asbury,
City Clerk Carroll and Chief of Police Tyndal. Other present were: Messrs. Dean
Scott, Henry Czech and Francis Loomis. A delegation of DeMolay members was present
as well as representatives of the Orlando Sentinel and the local Press.
The Invocation was given by Councilman Byrd. "Our heavenly Father we pray for
guidance,wisdom as sider of tile inCity Jesusfnamerviel�t
pray, Amen."
The Pledge of Allegiance was repeated in unison by those present. The Minutes of the
Meeting held on March 27, 1973 were approved as written.
Visitors with Business
Messrs. W. L. Williams and Jim Westbrook of Michael s-Stiggins, Inc.
Williams - "This is of course on Edgewood about the pressure line and the pumping
station and a gravity flow line -the only thing that we're in question about is the
gravity flow line -at the time we were going to put in a small line up there and a small
station and the city thought it would be to their advantage and to everybody else
to increase the size and to take in the whole area, which I agreed withwholeheartedly
because it was cheaper at that time and the maintenance would be a lot less -so we agreed
with the city to pay what it would cost us to install our system and the city picked
up the balance of this to install a larger system -a larger line and all the facilities
to it -vie did not get into the installation of it because we thought that since we paid
for the job the city would take all the iniative on it -we did not have the plans to
approve although' the city had our plans and they were approved. Now the line came
up with a 30" cover on it meaning it was 30 in the ground -vie had as much as a 2
and 3 foot cut in some areas there, meaning that your line was either out of the ground
or was on top of the ground -there again you had our plans to check and make sure
that they did coincide with this -now we did not have your plans and todate we still
have nothing that tells what you put in there which was really immaterial to us as it was
goiig to belong to you and we paid for the job -so we went back and had this line lowered
at a cost of $1041.00, I think it was, a little over $1,000-$1021.40. We had the
heavy equipment in there at the time and we had to go ahead and get it done -we had it
done over a weekend which was a Saturday, Sunday and Monday to get it done and since we
did pay for a job, or at least we feel that we paid to have a job done, we feel that
we should be reimbursed for that amount of money."
Westbrook - "Mr. Williams you said that it was a gravity line, I believe that it
was a pressure line -there had been discussion with your engineer and you for some time
with preliminary plans that did not show grading plans -the first letter that I have in
my file is dated June 16th of 1972 to the city and at what time the city actually got
it and what time I actually got it- I don't know, but on June 19th this line was
installed and it's our feeling that vie didn't have sufficient knowledge of your cuts
at that time to have lowered it -now I regret that it happened -I wish it hadn't, but
I do not feel that it's the city's responsibility nor Michael s-Sti ggi ns to pay for
it."
Williams - "Some months after that when you did come up with a final plan -in other words
they were completed -then at that time should you not have picked up that 30 cut when we
were showing more than a 30 inch cut and your line was at 30 inches?"
Westbrook - "No, you should have had your engineers -our line, or the city's lines,
vial there - your engineers should have picked that u
Williams - "We still do not have anything showing that, to the best of my knowledge -but
it did not give us any depths of the line - still doesn't - we have a copy of it -
still does not give us a depth.
Westbrook -"For a force main, the'"
MINUTES N(.) 909
Williams aBut how could you put the regulations - say - that there will be a 30 inch
cover=how could you put a street in where- that you didn't have to either cut or fili-
I mean this is just got to be -just don't run a street right down a place of property -
now if we cut 2 inches we will be breaking regulations right there at any point and
we are sure it wouldn't fill on top of the hill, like that one out there - we would
have to cut through"
Wes.thro9k..: If we had been totally aware of the situation we would have informed
Bumby & Stimpson to lower it - how far did they lower it, two feet?
Williams - "A good two feet."
Westbrook - "They would have charged money for this - probably not this much -but in
view o' t-th timing."
Williams: - "I was with your representative - forget his name now - we were at the
trailer at Bumby & Stimpson - I spent all day one day -finally they talked to Mr. Groo
and he said go ahead and they would give us a letter the first of the week authorizing
us to do that. I called two different times after that for this letter and I have
not received it as yet. Now Mr. Groo is the one who talked to them on the phone, up
here - I believe he also talked to Bob one time that day - one day when I was over there,'
Westbrook -Authorizing what, Mr. Williams?"
Williams -"To lower this line"
Westbrook - "But not authorizing payment."
Williams -"Well if you are authorized to do something at automatically -in other
woorr s7
Westbrook: "The line belonged to the city - it had to be lowered and you had to have
authorization".
Williams: "1 could have taken that up with Mr. Hopkins - I didn't have to go thru
eng ne_e ng firm to get that, I don't believe."
Westbrook - "I think you're correct."
Williams - The point was that it had - in other words - with my heavy equipment
sitting out there by the hour - I had to get it done over the weekend."
Westbrook -"What I want to say, on June 16th a letter addressed to Mr. Hopkins is
first correspondence - and now long it took me to get that letter - around eight days,
I don't know but the construction began on the 19th. I think timing is such that
we didn't know your cuts."
Williams - Well even at that, when we did submit our cuts - now you did come back
with several changes on the plans which we had to make - now don't you think that
you could have given us that at that time."
Westbrook - I think your engineers, knowing that we were going to put this in should
have a vised us and the city that this line needs to be so deep and then we would have
gone to the contractor and if it was two feet lower, then he would have charged, not
this much, I don't think."
Williams - "I caught this over a weekend and we had to pay the extra - we still feel
if we pay - in this case we feel that we more or less made a contract with the city and
that they are more or less responsible to give us a job that has to work and of course
this could not work and since we did not approve their plans - they approved ours or you
did it I mean, using the plural there - we did not even have the authority to check your
plan."
Westbrook - "Yes you did".
Williams - "But you had to check ours I mean that was the way it had to be."
Westbrook -"But our plans were planned originaly and with receipt of your first letter -
I have the original dated June 16th - now when Bob got it I don't know and when I got
it, I don't know, but it must be a few days - and then construction about the 19th."
Williams: "Could I call Mr.Heinmann, here? --- could you add anything to this."
Heinmann: I think the only thing that I can add is that - Mr. Westbrook made the comment -
t a-Fi t our grade was not indicated and I think that on the plans that were delivered to.you
for approval prior to the construction did have all that."
MINUTES M 910
Westbrook - On that date the:, The first letter is dated June 16th. Here's a letter
It t�where I approved some things - the letter was dated 21st.
Williams - "You did throw some things back on us at that time, but wnat I'm say-
ing is that you should have also kicked back that on us at that time".
Westbrook - "No, sir. I don't think so. You should have called this to the city's
andourattention."
Williams - "But we had no idea that you had set it at 30 inches."
Westbrook - "We didn't know your cuts."
Williams - "If you had cut any at all, it would have been too shallow."
Beals - "Mr. Mayor, rather than belabor these issues on an evening when we already have
a eavy agenda, I think we all are aware of what the dispute is if we have been reading
our correspondence - if there are no further questions by Council members, I think
the only issue right now is to decide whether or not we want to overide the City
Manager on his recommendation."
Smoak - "I agree, Mr. Beals, I think it was pretty fully outlined inn Mr. Hopkins letter
dated Ma ch 29th and it would seem to me that having approved it on April llth--
construction not beginning until 19th-there was a period of some 65 days or so in there -
it seems to me to be a lack of communication between the two of you as to whose
fault it is - I don't know, but it would seem to me that the city directl is less
involved than your construction company, Mr. Williams, or Michaels -Stagg ns-for my
part I agree with Mr. Beals -it's simply a question of whether we agree to disagree
with the City Manager's opinion and if a motion is in order -in view of the fact that '
according to the time table layed out in Mr. Hopkins letter to you, Mr. Williams,
the sequence of events, particularly, if your improvement plans were dated June 16th
and they went by mail with a lapse of at least 24 to 46 hours, then construction started
on the 19th-evidently the order for construction has been given for some time -do you have
that date, Mr. Westbrook?"
Westbrook -" Our notes reflect that it began on the 19th"
Smoak - "No the question I asked was when did the construction company itself, who did
The actual work (Bumby and Stimpson)."
Westbrook - "When they were instructed? I don't have that with me."
Mayor - "Well it had to have beensome time prior to that."
Smoak - "That's the point I was making, Mr. Mayor, considering what was done one day
and started construction the next day - evidently your plans drawn up for the
Installation of the increased capacity line were approved some time prior to receiving the
plans from Mr. Williams for the construction."
Heinmann - "Now remember these dates which are cited here in the letter and also on
The planswhere the signatures were affixed -these were terminal dates -they had the plans
quite some time before these dates -I mean they take some time to review- there is quite
a list of items which they asked us to change and indicating that the plans had a
datetandothertimewherreviewedhthe planhis somethinghdifferentnitialed-his initialing
Westbrook - August 1st is when I approved them"
Heinmann - "Yes, but there was a prior"
Westbrook - "The first letter addressed to the city was June 16th-prior to that we saw
prelim�y plans, but not finals."
Heinmann - "Yes, but there was quite a list there which indicated they had had quite
i review and there was obviously quite a lot of information available on grades and
sizes and this type of thing."
Westbrook - "I don't guess at them, Mr. Heinmann. There was existing topography and
street layout and tentative items - June 16th is the first contact with the - with a finished.
set of plans."
Smoak - Mr. Mayor, if it be in order, I would suggest that this be left up to the City
Manager or whoever was involved in the discussions and negogiations on that and I personally
would be in favor of following his recommendation."
MINUTE'S N9 911
Ilo kins - "Mr. Mayor may I make a couple of comments by way of clarification -We've {
earl about June. 16th- I've got the latter here the letter of transmittal on the
improvement plans from the dovelopers engineers and it was dated June 15th which
was a Thursday. My memo indicates that the city received these improvement plans on
June 16th which was a Friday, and on Monday, Bumby and stimpson started to work -
that the sequence of events after I received the improvement plans was before the
their review which took place and finally in August were approved after
engineers for
some, changes were made by the developers -I got a set of amended plans on July 13th,
so during this month or se period a number of things took place -I think the problem
was that both the developer was putting together his design and our engineers was
putting together a design on that change to accommodate Edgewood at the same time and
the right hand didn't know what the lefthand was doing -now who should have exercised
the initiative „ I'm not quite sure and it's very difficult to affix responsibility -
once that line was in the ground and vie received the developers plan -it's their
contention that we should have brought it to their attention that that line was
in the ground and based on the existing grade and proposed grade as shown on the 1
plan -someone should have brought it to their attention -at the same token, they
knew it was going into the ground and possibly they should have taken the initiative
to determine where that line was and to design around it -since we had started off
our efforts in this direction back in April when vie brought it to the attention i
of the Council -I'm taking the position that vie were farther along possibly -and I
don't have any evidence to support this to any extent, but that we were farther along
with what we were doing than they, and it would have been easier for them to possibly
make the necessary changes -we were shooting a very difficult time frame with the
contractor in trying to get him squared away making necessary change orders and
this type of thing which complicated our end of the deal, but I'm just taking the
position as I've indicated in my memorandum that the initiative should have been
exercised by the developer -the city's engineers now could on with approving their
plans as to meeting the specifications of the subdivision orditonbringdthas nottheir
P
under any legal, possibly moral, responsibility in my op
inionattention and that's what I base my recommendation on"
Byrd Bob on your memo shows a date of May 9th and says that Michael s-Stiggins advised
Bumby and Stimpson that the plans were being drawn and that they would be forthcoming -
what plans are you talking about -is that the plans for the lift station"
VHopkins - For the increase in the capacity of the lift station and the force main-
i— na 1Y the lift station was to be on Grand Highway and it was relocated to be at
the bottom of Hillside Drive- made larger to accommodate Edgewood, the proposed
ange and Bumby and stimpson were advised
development, so, after Council approved the ch
of this and told that plans would follow and they would be expected to do that
additional work "
g ry d - "Once the line was in the ground, had you known it was only 30 inches below
the surface, would it have changed your grade at all?"
Williams - "Well we could possibly have stayed a little higher, but with the regulations
stating that you have a 30 inch cover on it vie couldn't take any off of it -it was
at 30 inches -we checked it at several places
Bvrd - The point I'm making is, is that it's unfortunate, but the line was
y
alread th,
ere and the fact that you didn't know about it really didn't change anything
because you still would have cut whether you had known the line was there or not"
Williams -"Well, yeah our plans showed the cut in other words to keep that - that
hillis pretty rough anyhow -and we needed to cut it there rather than go and hump
straight down on it -now they followed the terrain which was existing at that time
with an orange grove- they just come up and -like I say, they had a 30 inch cover -and it
was about as near as you could measure-30 inches all the way up -but if we'd had to
cut any at all, vie would have been down below the 30 inch regulation"
Smoak - "Mr. Williams in your estimate, not knowing the length of the line, but you
would have to drop that force main an additional two feet from the original installa-
tion, what would your estimate be of the additional cost on initial installation"
Heinmann - Generally the lines are - you know-layed out to be 0 to 6, 6 to 8, 8 to
o cut, from the ground surface down to the invert of the pipe or the top of the pipe -
whichever e ouspecify
and
I think
inO6 this
case
itryouldd.'.t have been a great deal
of ernecli
Smoak - With your opinion on the rest of the work that has been done in Clermont,
MINUTES M 912
what would the difference have been?"
Westbrook - A force main is not laved per foot of cut -it's layed like, a water line-
vwu estimate 60 cents a foot additional for that -that's a guess."
Smoak - Bob do you have any idea of the length of that force, main -the difference in
rerouting that we had to do to accommodate [dgewood?'
Hopkins I don't know ,Just how much was actually lowered"
41ill,iams - Well we lowered the whole thing down to the manhole which is down at the
ottom, so we lowered it somewhere between 600 and 800 feet."
Hopkins - Well it's a city block - say 600 feet"
Westbrook- "Your gravity lines are closed 0 to A, h to 6, 6 to B, but not these
nes
Hai-nmann - Well we don't plan to stand here and argue engineering before the Council
but many times you will go through a slight hill to keep a force main from having
a dip in it or something of this nature there are variances, I mean we're citing
general cases here, not all cases"
Smoak: - "I was asking specifics on this particular"
Heinmann - "Well I mean the force main may or may not follow the ground if you want to
ma e t so it doesn't have a high spot or a low spot in it to trap air, well many
times you will go through a hill and I think it would have been specified -it could
have been in this case"
Mayor - "I'd like to ask one question if I may, I'm notan engineer -far from it, but
o I un erstand the situation that the city's installation by our construction company
was in prior to your making connection to it"
Westbrook=- "Yes, sir"
Williams - "We made no connection at all to their construction"
mayor - "Well it just seems to me that the engineers of your company knew that you
a to go to a certain point with a certain line you would make an investigation to
see where that -where you were going to and where the line was that you were gonna come
to.,
Williams - Well we knew where it went to except for the depth of it"
Westbrook - It's layed like a water line, Mayor"
Williams - Bumby and Stimpson's man told me that they had no specific plan on this-
t ey ha a penciled sketch job to set it at 30 inches and that's what they did -they
apparently did not have an engineering plan on it either"
Westbrook= "Yes, Sir. They had plans"
Williams = Well they told they didn't and your representative was there at the time
as I said, we spent all day out there in that trailer"
Mayor "I would suggest that we bring this to a head and, does one of the Council
wish to make a motion in order to dipose of this situation, I think it would be in order"
Smoak - One more question if I might ask it, Mr. Mayor. You said you spoke with
a representative of Bumby and Stimpson and they said that they didn't have a set of
plans.
Williams - "No, not Bumby and Stimpson. Michaels-Stigg;ns."
Smoak: I thought you said that Michaels-Stiggins.representative was there".
Williams - Well I spoke to the foreman for Bumby and Stimpson and Michael s-Stiggins
representative was there -they called him from Apopka".
Smoak - "Bumby & Stimpson's representative said at that time they had just a pencil
sketch -and they had this 30 inch cover?"
Williams -"Right"
Smoak - "This was prior to any construction?"
Williams "Of ours, Yes".
Smoak - "Of theirs?"
MINUTES NQ 943
Williams - "Welt, when they put in it he told me that they had a penciled paper of
t an t ey did not have one that day because we were trying to find it -and they called
your man from Apopka and he was over here all day with us also.
Westbrook -"This was Don Phillips"
B rd "Mr. Mayor I think that it's very unfortunate that communication wasn't better
ut I can't see that there is much the city can do to straighten it out- I move that
we support the position taken by the City Manager'.'
Mayor - "You've heard the motion, do I hear a second?"
Schroedel - I'll second the motion".
Mayor - "It's been moved and seconded, do I hear any discussion? How do you vote
r. Sc FroedeI?
Schroedel - "I vote, Aye"
Mayor - "Mr. Byrd?"
Byrd _ "Aye
Mayor - "Mr. Beals?"
Beals - "Ayes"
Mayor - I vote, Aye. Mr. Smoak?"
Smoak - "Aye"
Mayor - The Ayes have it and it is so ordered"
Smoak - I wonder Mr. Mayor if we might ask Mr. Westbrook the status of the Operators
Mangy while he's here".
Westbrook - I knew you would -we have been informed that we better have it in by the
first of May -we are making every effort to comply with that"
Smoak - Thank you, Sir. I don't that that's an unreasonable request in view of the
fact that the year and one half that I've sat on the Council -I know it's been asked
for a minimum of one year"
Westbrook - "Would you like•to see one"
Smoak - "No, Sir. I wouldn't. I would like to Mr. Hopkins to see the one we need".
Mayor -"The only one we want to see is the one for us. Mrs. Nell Hunt? Would you
care to approach the Council now?"
Mrs. Hunt - I'm really not well prepared, but I have been doing a little groundwork
En what I'm wantirgI hope everyone is a little familiar with the property which I
bought, which is the Dr. Steady property and I've talked to several of the people here,
as many as I could get to -I couldn't get you Mr. Smoak".
Smoak - I tried to call you back at quarter of four today".
Hunt - The property as I think you are all aware was being used as a doctor's office
and I am a real estate broker -I'm not coming in to give anybody any trouble, like Mr.
Beals,I work mostly on land which is down near Disney -and I like Clermont -that's the
reason I came here -I think it's a beautiful place and the people have been just grand
to me -so I'd like to make it my home, right now I'm pretty homesick -having a little
trouble with that, but I would like to get this zoned for business and I understand
that it's been like this for about ten years -for a doctor's office -and I feel my
business is along the same professional line -I'll go about it in the proper way if I
can get any indication from the Council as to how they feel about it -I have talked
to an Attorney and he advised me that might be my best approach".
Mayor - I know that Dr. Steady had an office there for sometime, was he grandfathered
in with that office?
Hopkins - "It's presently zoned R-2 which doesn't provide for any office or home
occupation."
Beals = "R-3 would permit -home occupations -it's a non -conforming use or was a non-
conforming use and I guess ceased to be when it was sold".
MINUTES N4 9111
Smoak - How does the Ordinance read on that - isn't there a six months period from
Ve_t me that it has to lay idle six months before it's"
use. If
r.
had
eea— sed operations,it Cthan he woulan't be dhavehad d to another
period ��togstart back pup again, but
it can't be changed to another entirely different non -conforming use. By way of history
it might give you some input as to what conversations have transpired up to this
point -as I understand it -the information that has been provided to me -some time ago,
even before the Steady's sold the property, they inquired as to whether or not that
space which he had used as a doctor's office could be utilized for another office -I.
undertand he was told that it could not -then I was told that, I guess Mrs. Hunt had con-
tacted the city and inquired as to whether or not she could put a realty office in
there -my answer at that time through Mr. Smythe was that, based on the input that
she had provided, that she wag going to be doing nothing more than using the telephone
on land transactions some distance from here-wasn t going to really encourage any
door or off the street traffic, this sort of thing and not dealing with local real
estate and as far as we were concerned that if she wanted to operate a real estate
effort -telephone communications and this sort of thing -no signs -no evidence of any
business being conducted -because all over town there are people who provide themselves
with some means -additional means of support through some sort of home occupation,
if you will and our position was that there was no evidence of any traffic -no disturbance
of the neighbors -no signs -no advertising -all more the power to you -the subject of
signs came up and we definitely said, No, you can't do that. The later discussions
I had with Mrs. Hunt was after she purchased the property, now if she was mis-lead, I'm
not sure at this point, was that she had a desire to put a real estate firm in there,
one that is located locally and that my answer to that was definite, e
ite, No-becaby use
certainly there would be signs and advertising encouraging people
and transact business -so now she has acquired the property and is between a rock and
a hard place, but with signs and all the other things that go with a real estate
office, we're saying absblutely not, but based on the initial input that we had
that all this over the phone type of thing and nobody would have any idea what was
going on there anyway, we weren't going on a witch hunt and stop her on that basis
Mayor -11You made a statement a little while ago Mrs. Hunt that your real estate
deals are mostly in the Disney World area, is your intention to take out an
occupational license for the real estate business right here in Clermont so that you would
be operating a real estate office here in Clermont."
Mrs. Hunt -"Yes, definitely, and also we are required to have a sign - certain kind and
size etc.- I can't operate without signs."
Mayor - But if you were operating on deals strictly in another town-another
county
I wouldn't think that you'd be interested in advertising y
our place of s as a
real estate office."
Mrs. Hunt: - "No, not necessarily, but what I mean we are required to have a sign -it's
real estate law that you have to have a sign."
Beals - With 4 inch letter, I think and just Registered Real
something which Bob was probably referring to"
Mrs. Hunt - "This is something which we have to operate under"
Beals -"Right"
Smoak - " But that could be on the face of your building, couldn't it?"
Mrs. Hunt - "It has to be near your entrance."
Mayor - `It could be on the window next to the door, couldn't it?"
Hopkins: - Well our position is that if a person is operating a business in a home, for
instance, mail-order, for instance we just had a case recently where an elderly lady came
in and wanted to know if she had to have a occupational license to do some sewing to
help supplment her income -this sort of thing from the present standpoint, you couldn't
enforce if you wanted to and so our position is if there are no signs -no advertising or
evidence that there is a business -no complaints from the neighbors -certainly we're
f t a bucks and I'm sure you
Estate Broker - not
not going to stand in your way trying to make a ew ex r
need it, but where there are signs and evidence 6f a business and encouraging
MINUTES N4 915
commercial traffic in a residential neighborhood than we're gonna be having complaints and
we have to make it clear what the ordinance is and if we're forced to enforce it then
we don't have any alternative -we don't want to say, Yes, it's allright unless we get
a complaint and they spend money to go into business and then the next day we're down
there telling them they have to go out of business.'
Mrs. Hunt-' Incidentally I have contacted all the neighbors and they're all for me."
Mayor:— "We understand that'Mrs. Hunt, but if I understand the situation correctly,
we w- ould be allowing something that is absolutely against our ordinance and we
might just as well not have a code of ordinances if we don't live up to them -that's
what they're for. I'd like to be nice to you and say, Yes, but then we've got a
code of ordinances to live up to -that's what the citizens have elected us for and we
pretty well have our hands tied."
Mrs. Hunt -"Well I see your position. I think in that particular area though that
certainly in the future it probably will be business anyhow."
Mayor - "Well at any time it is, we'll be glad to issue you an occupational license."
Mrs. Hunt "In the meantime, it's not helping me any"
Beals -"Mr. Mayor I think we ought to give Mrs. Hint a little bit more, not necessarily
encouragement, but definite information as to how this should be handled, obviously
there is no way to grant what you want- I think technically even a design with a
4 inch letters would be termed a commercial, that would automatically make it
commercial - I think maybe your prior information might have been ill advised to
some extent."
Mrs. Hunt -"I won't mention the name of the broker here in town, but I went through
a broker because I believe in doing that when buying property -so the broker I went
through plus the Steadp and plus the city hall as when I went down there they
all assured me that it was allright."
Beals - "Well probably Mr. Smythe or Mr. Hopkins or whoever you talked to earlier
di- dn-t-even think about the requirement of the real estate commission as far as
signs are required, but as I see it, there is nothing the city can do now short of
changing the zoning and that of course would have to go first before the Planning
and Zoning."
Mrs. Hunt -I .lust missed them - that's the reason I came here before you tonight-
i would have gone there first -I just happened to be out of town and missed their
meeting."
Mayor "Do I understand that you were given assurance at City Hall that you could open
up a real estate office"
Mrs. Hunt - "I think the words were that -I checked to see if I had been informed
correctly -and he said I see no reason why you couldn't -and that.was just about the
extent of it."
Hopkins - "Mr. Smythe asked me -and this was the information that I had -that she was
going to be dealing in real estate transactions away from Clermont and was not going
to be dealing in local real estate and my answer was -if there were no signs -no
advertising, certainly we're not gonna say anything because there will be no evidence
of any business going on that would disturb the neighbors or anybody else' -she
knowing that a sign was required- I wasn't at the time aware of that and she should
have, in my opinion, catalogued all that and come up with the conclusion that
Yes -we have to have a sign, so No, we can'.t do it -when I talked to her myself personally
some time after she had made the initial inquiry and I explained the two alternatives
that I use as guides -that signs are advertising and encourages people to frequent
that particular place of business then we have to take the position that it is not
permissible."
Beals: - "That's right as I see it, I don't - I think it's pretty obvious there's
nothing this Council can do tonight other than refer you back and have you apply for
a change in zoning and maybe just off the top of our heads give you our opinion as
how that might go - it would seem to me it would have kinda tough sledding, but "I
don't know, that's just my personal opinion -it wouldn't be spot zoning I don't
MINUTES N9 q 1()
believe because it abuts commercial, but 1t would be changing the character of that
special area."
Mrs. Hunt -"Would It be a variance that I needed, or a conditional?
Beals -"No a variance wouldn't be proper."
Hopkins -"If it were changed to an R-3 then professional offices would be allowed
under a conditional use."
Beals - "Of course what Mrs. Hunt is talking about -it seems to me that a change
-n zon ng is the only way to accomplish what Mrs. Hunt is seeking."
Smoak - "Are the lots directly across from Mrs. Hunt -weren't they changed to a
zone?'
Beals - "No."
Smoak - "All the rest of the lots in the block were changed except those?"
Schroedel - "Ali the lots except those fronting on East Avenue "
Smoak - "The lot facing Highway #50 on East Avenue is zoned commercial - C-2
-7 s that correct?"
Schroedel - Yes, there is a 7-Eleven store there."
Ord - "And the property lying just east of it is not buildabl.p."
Beals - "I'.m not suggesting that it should be changed nor how it should be changed
ub t -f t seems to me it would be kind of hypocritical to make it R-3 because what
your're suggesting would hardly be a home occupation -now what you have in mind
originally -I would consider that a home occupation, but not with intended future use -that
should be in a C-1 it would seem to me."
Schroedel - The lots coming right up to 50 facing East Avenue are R-2."
No kikins- On the east side of the street - on the west side, all of that we C-1
and t_hen when they came in with a zoning change request for a C-2 to compromise with
the folks that live on East Avenue and didn't want it changed, it was left C-1, but the
property fronting on Highway #50 was changed to C-2 that remained as is -Mr. Kidder's
house and other property he owned."
Smoak -"How big a sign are you talking about, just for my own information."
Mrs. Hunt - "I believe its 4 inches - the letters would be 4 inches - I believe that's
the m F imum, I haven't read the regulations recently."
Smoak - "This would read "Hunt's Real Estate"?
Mrs. Hunt -"Well my name, yes."
Mayor -"It would have to read Real Estate Broker. I think the only solution for
you would be a change of the zoning and the only way you can get that is to make
application -go before the P& Z Board and get their recommendation, I'm sorry that you
were given misleading information, but I don't believe that Mr. Hopkins, the way
he has explainbd it, has."
Mrs. Hunt -"No, I have no quarrel with Mr. Hopkins."
Mayor; -" Is Bud Baker here?"
Are the representatives of the DeMolay here? Yes they are in force.
We're glad to have you fellows."
Mike Cosgrove- My name is Mike Cosgrove and I'm the senior counselor of the Order
la Demolay, Clermont Chapter. We're here concerning our Demolay park that we're
constructing on Third Street and Crystal Lake Drive -first of all I'd like to give you a
very brief history on DeMolay. The Order of Demolay was founded by Frank Sherman Land
MINUTES NV 9,17
in 1919 and he gave a fatherless boy a job and figured out that there were probably
other boys like him that would need companionship and cognnetition, so he instituted
the first Order of DoMolay Chapter. The boys agreed on the name DeMolay on the
suggestion of Mr. Land because he was affiliated with the Masons back in the 14th
century because he was the last Grand Master of Knights Templar and he was one of the
original crusaders and during the time of the inquisition he was on crusades and
during the exchange of power he was arrested along with three of his preceptors
and he had a mistrail-a false trial- and was burned at the stake along with the
preceptors. He was burned at the stake on a small island in the middle of the Seine
[liver in Frano:and we are presently in communication with Clermonte, France,
a sister city of ours and asking them if they will send something like a plaque or
something to commemorate so we could put it in our park permanently and we're
building this park for the use of everybody -it's a contribution of DeMolay to try
and beautify our city and at this time I'd like to turn this over to Steve Cook,
our Senior Steward and he will give you detailed drawing, which he drew himself."
Mayor -"Excuse my ignorace, but what does DeMolay mean? "
Cosgrove -"Well see it was taken after Jacque DeMolay, the last Grand Master of
n g is Templar and it's an organization of boys under that name"
Steve Cook pointed out to Council the main things on the drawing such as location
of the trees, the proposed rock garden, the location of the DeMolay emblem to be
placed in concrete, the two sidewalks to be constructed, a Japanese gateway,
picnic tables and bar b-q's - a flag pole and shrubs, etc.
Schroedel - "Who is going to take care of this?"
Cook - "The members of the Chapter of DeMolay."
Schroedel - "Do you expect that they will take care of it and keep it up?"
Cook - "Yes, Sir."
Mayor - "What's on that property now?"
Smoak - "Sandspurs - beggar weeds and fleas."
Schroedel - "That's the same spot that has been used in the past for Sunrise services,
isnrt it?'r
Smoak - I think up until last year - I think last year they held in at the football
fieTd
Schroedel - "Are there any city installations inside there - any pipe cables or lines
of any kind?"
Hopkins -"No, there is a sanitary sewer line that goes along one side of it, which
wouldn t be any problem."
Schroedel - "How are going to finance this thing? You've got a lot of cost
involved in what all you plan to do."
Cook - "Most of it is donations and we have fund raising activities."
Mayor - What is the estimated cost of what you're going to do - have any indication
of what it's gonna cost you boys to do this project?"
Cook - "It wouldn't cost us over $75.00."
Mayor - Bar B-Q pits and tables and all?"
Cook - "Yes,•Sir. "
Mayor - "You're getting a pretty good price then."
Cook - "Most of it all is donated."
Byrd - "What kind of picnic tables do you have in mind?"
Cook - "Concrete about 8' x 10'."
Mayor - "If what I understand is correct, what you want at this meeting is approval
of Council for you to go ahead with this project, is that right?"
Cook - "More or less, Yes."
Mayor - "You're not asking for financial assistance from Council.
MINUTES NO 918
Cook - _"No."
Smoak - "Mr. Mayor I live directly across the lake from that piece of property -
Tirst -' all I think anything that can be done over there would be an Improvement -
secondly I think it's a very commendable effort that these young men want to partake
arpersonalea project standpoint,like th now ifiyouroth from a request iscity thatitheocityncouncilpoint and authorizefrom
you
to proceed, I so move that this Council do it."
Mayor - "You've heard the motion, do I hear a second?"
Schroedel - "I'll second it. Being a former DeMolay, I will second the motion."
Byrd - "Are all the trees shown on that sketch?"
Cook - "Yes, Sir"
Are there only two oak trees over there?"
Cook - " Yes, Sir."
Igor - Any more discussion?"
MB rd Yes. I live across the lake from there too and I don't necessarily agree
I likergrassaandl akntreeslnk andthat I'm notce of sure youpcanylooks Improvetoo on itdaIwhole lotlogtht-
cement".
Mayor _ "There's not going to be a lot of cement is there young man V'
Cook - "No sir, there's gonna be a sidewalk down the center with shrubbery around
the e ges and we're gonna plant grass -now it's mostly sand and weeds."
Byrd - "Have you ever been involved with a rock garden?" -
Cook - Yes sir, and we have taken suggestion and looked at rock garden and we're
going to put in coquina rock and evergreens."
Byrd - I had one one time and I couldn't keep the weeds pulled out of it."
Smoak - "Since you're the rock president and sales manager of Tower Chemical Company,
that you might seriously consider donating to the DeMolay on this worthy project,
some selective herbicides to keep their rock garden clean."
Byrd - Smoak you don't put herbicides around oak trees - if I did that and the oak
trees died, I'd get run out of town."
Smoak - The rock garden as layed out there is not around the oak trees."
Beals -'-'Mr. Mayor I live across the lake from there too and don't want to be left
out. I'd just like to compliment the DeMolay on what they're doing -I've noticed
the last couple of Saturdays they've been working down there real hard -I've ridden
by and saw them -I saw my dear friend, Dean Scott down there and I'd look the other way and f
hurry by fast for fear he'd solicit my help -I see he's here tonight -I'm free with
advice but I was afraid he might put a spade in my hand etc. but seriously I think
that you are to be•xommended for the work which you are doing."
Byrd - "Is there any assurance that this park is gonna be kept and/ARRrSIXed and
the city not going to have to take it over and keep it u
Dean Scott - I believe I can give you the answer to that. These boys are desirous
of having a beautiful city park -they are totally involved in it -each one of them
are out working -taking jobs to earn money itp buy the necessary shrubs and flowers and
rocks, etc. to put in it and we have been assured help from just about every organiza-
tion in town - Yes, I give you my total and complete assurance that this is a continu-
ing project."
Mayor - " Thank you Sir. I'm not too well acquiainted with DeMolay, but I've never
heard a word against it and I've heard a lot of nice things about it and I want to
thank you boys for being here -first I want to thank you for your efforts and then -
is there any more discussion? All in favor of the motion then, signify by saying Aye.
The Ayes have it and it is so ordered!
Smoak -' I believe we can go one step further -I think every member of this Council
can donate $10.00 to the Clermont Chapter of DeMolay wouldn't you be in agreement
with that, Mr. Schroedel? I'm sure Mr. Byrd would.-'
MINUTES N9 919
ay rd - "Did you ever pay your $25,00?"
Smoak - "Yes I did, did you?
Byrd -"No, I never got around to it - I better send them a check."
Scott- Gentlemen, I can assure you that we will accept your ten dollars."
Smoak - Senior Advisor, will you please remind each of the Council members in writing
of their pledges of help?"
Cosgrove - "Yes, Sir, I will."
Mayor - Mr. Minnick, do you wish to approach the Council at this time?"
Mark Minnick -The Babe Ruth League is raising quite a lot of racket about the softball
eague us ng the East Avenue field and also the high school coach is too, but to get
around everything, that second field by the Little League field -well they're trying
to acquire another field for practice now I understand, but if that fence could
be moved back and the light poles moved, it wouldn't affect Little League at all and
we'd have to place to play also and then this summer when we'll have the time, we'll
work the infield and grass it etc. and I feel improve that field quite a bit -the
biggest problem right now are the mosquitoes being so bad- Little League has been
having that problem too, with the fields being so close to the marsh - I presently
have a list of 60 some players with one team of about 15 members that I don't have
the names of yet and three out of town teams that want to play us and we'd like
to have a place here in Clermont to play without having to go out of our town to
have a place to play- Minneola has given us permission to play over there if we'd
pay half of the light bill and still there is no fence over there and the lighting
is most inadequate."
Schroedel - Mark, it is my understand that the town of Minneola pays one half of the
fight bill over there and the Progressive Club pays the other half."
Minnick - "That's right, but Minneola wants us to pay their half and they really
on t want us to play at all'
Schroedel - "Are there any Minneola boys playing on these teams?"
Minnick - Some, but a very small percentage"
Schroedel- In other words, they are going to penalize their own boys who would be
playing there."
Minnick -"Right"
Beals - "Well I think we ought to encourage you to stay in Clermont anway until such
time as Minneola is a part of Clermont and then maybe you want to go back over there."
Male
a or Mr. Hopkins what is your opinion on the request to move the fence back with
orida Power moving the light poles?"
Hopkins - "Well we've been considering this for a couple of years- 41e had some
figures toward moving the fence -there would be some additional fence required -the
poles would have to be moved -the lighting would have to be increased with the
increased distance- Florida Power is taking a little different position now, as are
all organizations, in being as benevolent as they've been in the past -about a year
ago when they were more benevolent than they are now -they would only go half the
cost, so with moving the fence -putting up some additional new fence -moving the
poles and increasing the lighting would cost us about $1,000.00."
Beals - " What about the present Municipal Park -you say you've been -the Babe Ruth and the
High School have been giving you some difficulty:"
Minnick - Now I haven't heard anything myself from Babe Ruth, it's just we understood
that Bu _8aker was going to be here tonight to appear against us using the field."
Beals - "There was a Bud Baker on the agenda tonight, but he's not present."
Smoak - Charles, irregardless if there were no complaints -the field they're playing
on --the distances that the bags are from home plate - the distance of the pitchers
mound from home plate do not conform with the type of ball they're playing -they're
playing on a regulation baseball field and soft pitch softball -there is 30 feet
difference."
MINUTES N9 020
Beals - I'm aware of that, but you had indicated at last meeting that that was
sat s7actory by leaving+ the base lines where they were and would not use cleats and
would oven rake it up.
Minnick - I spent 11; hours myself after the last game raking it up Phe whol base
TTER�ong as we
didn't use it on 6 different days and then he turned around and was supposed to be
down here tonight to fuss about us using it."
Beals - "The only thing I don't want is for you to feel like--- the high school has
a so utely no jurisdiction over it anyway -it was just out of the goodness of the
city's heart that the high school gets to use it, nor the Babe Ruth League either, you
know, to run you:peppIa off -my sympathy is with some 80 to 100 people that are wanting
to use it for softball."
M--a�y�—and - I think the most equitable solution to get these boys what they really
need and be proper, like Mr. Smoak says you've got 90 foot base lines there and the
pitchers mound is longer than it would be in regulations softball that if there is
anyway possible that we can see our way clear to reorganizing this field out here --
I'd be in favor of going along that line."
Minnick- The only thing on the muncipal field -we played a practice game with Bob
a e Ford there the other night and what we're really after is a place that ve can have
- know when we can practice -have schedules set up and go ahead and set up our game
schedules." We've got two more teams wanting to form, but they're a little
hesitant right now because we can,
set up a schedule yet - they like to have run
us to death down there with those long base lines- it was really pretty bad."
Mayor— - "What's the schedule on this field that we're talking about renovating -the
one down on 12th Street - how much is it used?"
Ho kins- "The Little League uses it for practice -of course they don't play on it -
we had make arrangements with Florida Power before we had the effluent problem and
started spraying back there to go ahead and move the fence and then that came
up as possible consideration for part of the irrigation and we held off and I just told
Florida Power to file the letter and hold it in abeyance, which I am sure with very
little notice we can arrange to have the fence company come in and relocate the fence
and Florida Power to move the lights."
Mayor - "They will (Florida Power) cooperate with us on part of the expense of moving
the lights won't they?"
Ho kins - "When I initially made my inquiry they agreed to pay half, but they're being
hit with financial problems like everybody else and not giving away this free labor
and equipment usage like they've done in the past and I'm sure they'll stand by their
original commitment to me and that was about $250.00 of gratis work on behalf of Florida
Power at that time."
Moar - 'I know they've been very cooperative and nice in the past - I don't know how
y are today."
Hrdd "Did you say that you could go ahead and use the second field that's down there
is year in essentially the same `ihape that it's in now or would you"
Minnick - "Not the fence. The fence would have to be moved"
Byrd - "In other words the fence is moved, you would be in business down there? and
the problem at the other place is that you just can't get in because so many other
people are already using it."
Minnick - "Trying to set up a schedule - we can't seem to get on in, since I was here
two weeks ago, we've been down practicing at the Little League extra field almost
every night and we haven't run into a Little League team yet -there was a game going
on one time,but that was on the other field, so we didn't have any trouble there.'.
Mayor- "If that fence is moved back, Mr. Mlinnick could you get by without the lights being
mov—ed7
Minnick - "No, Sir. We'd have a lighting problem without them being moved:
Beals - You were talking about $1,000.00-that's the city's half participation in
the lights and all the cost of moving the fence -all for $1,000.00?"
MINUTES N9 921
Hopkins - "I figure it would be about $1,000.00 based on the figures I already had"
Smoak - "What do you figure the cost is for moving the fence?"
Hopkins - "I think it was about $500 to $600 for moving the fence and for increasing
the-fcnre about 150 feet."
Beals - Seems to me that would be money well pent -next year Florida Power might
note so benevolent and the tennis courts are just nammed every night now and
this might take a little pressure off them."
Hopkins- "Weil for years now, Florida Power has always volunteered their assistance
ni replacing the lights on these poles -when their bucket truck was in town they
would go right out and replace lights for us -now they're telling us they can't do that
anymore -they're attitude is changing a little bit."
Mayor - "We'd better catch it before it changes entirely"
Schroedel -"Does this require a motion?"
MMaayor - Well I think the City Manager would like to have the acquise of the Council
Letore l-e decides to do anything, wouldn't you Bob?"
Hopkins -"Yes, Sir. If you decide to do it, I'll find the $1,000.00
Minick -"Since I am more or less representing everybody, ddwn here and I think after
we ff—gured it up, you've got about 50 some taxpayers on this thing, they're also
curious since you've got a Little League Association - A Babe Ruth Association and
now you've got this one - in the future could bleachers be put up on that field adjoining
it?"
Smoak "I want to bring this to your attention - the Little League has an association
w 1—h ch fas spent a great deal of money -the Association's money from fund raising
projects to improve that field that they're using -so it's not all city participation
in all that's been done down there -for instance last year I think it was $1400
that they spent for some project or other down there -anyway they do contribute a
great deal to sustaining their own thing going down there I think the city certainly
participates in maintenance -general construction and this sort of thing -it's not a 100%
city financed."
Beals - "The city pays the umpires salaries which I've always thought was a little
too— mum'
Hopkins -"Well I think that, without being argumentative, I think the city foots
99.99 of the bill out there we maintain it -we gave them $575.00 out of last years budget
to pay the umpires and this sort of thing- we replace the lights -we pay the light
bill -we replace the locks on the concession stand: every day -this sort of expense -
I'm not degrading the contribution that Little League makes, I think it's a very
worthwhile organization -but I think the softballers desire some consideration as
well -I don't know why the field was designed a softball field to start with with the
fences as close as they are -it serves no useful purpose right now- it's no good for
Little League -it's no good for hardball and it's no good for anything except to just
get out there"
Smoak - "If a motion is in order, I move that the necessary action be taken out
there at a minimum expense -whatever action be necessary up to $1,000.00 expenditure
be taken to make the field useful for the softball league."
Beals - "I'll second it"
The Ayes were unanimous from Council and Mayor Smith declared the motion carried.
Smoak - Bob could the city use any labor from the gentlemen playing in moving
t e fence or would this organization be willing to help?"
Minnick - "I'm sure that my team would and I feel sure the others would too. Is
it allright to go ahead and set up our game schedules now?
Mayor - "I see no reason why you shouldn't. You keep in touch with Mr. Hopkins
as to when he can arrange to have the poles and the fence moved and you then you
contact the others in your organization to set up a work party to help move the fence."
City Clerk Carroll read a letter from Ray P. Cochran wherein he urged that Council
give consideration on an individual basis to allowing home construction on small
lots in lieu of refusing all permits to building lots inferior in size as per the
MINUTES N4 922
zoning ordinance. Ile specifically requested that consideration be given to Willie
and Beatrice Lott to build a home on their lot which is 45 feet wide. It• was the
suggestion of Councilman Beals that a copy of this letter be forwarded to the seller
of the property, Charlie Johnson.
City Manager Hopkins reported as follows: That the sanitary sewer assessment notices
were mailed to all property owners approximately two weeks ago and to date $179,204.16
had been received less a $36,000.00 interest payment leaving a balcne of $143,204.16
now being invested at 7% interest: That he had received maps of the proposed construction
for the cable TV system -the company has been in town for a number of weeks making
preparations for the start of construction and hopefully within the next few weeks,
construction will actually start; That arrangements had been made to host the Lake
County League of Cities meeting at the Elks Club on Wednesday, April 18th; That in
a memo dated April 6th, Council was reminded of need to make additional appointments
to the P & Z Commission due to the expiration of the temporary terms of George Hovis
and George Oupee-unless the Charter is changed in May possibly by the next meeting of
the Commission we would be unable to get a quorum together based on the total number
of 11 and we've got some very important business coming up in May; That yesterday
correspondence was received from the Florida Department of Pollution Control regarding
our application for $150,000.00 from the revolving loan program -it seems a number
of procedural changes have taken place since our initial application and that we've been
invited to reapply -considerable additional information must be provided including
documentation of the financial program to repay the loan and engineering reports
done on the project to support any estimated construction costs -it may be well for
Council to review these in a work session before making reapplication; That in a
work session on April 2nd, a revised salary and wage schedule was presented and discussed
and it is my recommendation that this pay plan be implemented as of May 1st and
request Council approval of that recommendation; That he had been toying with the
idea of some kind of incentive plan for an "employee of the month" sort of thing;
That a final estimated from Bumby and Stimpson had been received in the amount of
of2approval hasthe
been givencollection
by thetFederaleGovernmentnand5he0rreccommendedthe
thatfinal
$70,000�.00nt
be charged to the General Fund for additional resurfacing under this project and
transferred to the Construction Account and $25,000.00 be transferred to the Construction
Account as a loan; That inasmuch as several large important items are to come up in the
very near future before the P & Z Commission such as a 32 acre PUD and since we
don't have personnel in house who are qualified to evaluate such engineering plans
and recommendations for change, that he thereby requested permission to engage Dawkins
and Associates to do this.
With regard to appointments to the P & Z Commission:
Beals - "Mr. Mayor, by May won't the Charter have been amended so that to take care
of this?"
Vason - "If the bill was passed"
Beals - "I've never known of a local bill not passing."
Vason - "The deadline is April 20th for filing the bill and the question is going to
e not whether or not the bill is gonna pass but whether or not the bill is passed by
the legislature prior to this meeting in May."
Beals - "Of course you are the City Attorney, but the fact that the intent is here -
that it's just a matter of formality -I mean -if the local delegation is for it, the
legislature is going to pass it, so that shouldn't even be an issue -the fact that the
intent is here, couldn't we just go on assumption?"
Smoak- "I wonder to be on the safe side, if Mr. Dupee and Mr. Hovis would be agreeable,
reappoint them for an additional month and ask that they attend the May meeting to make
sure there would be a quorum, and then there wouldn't be any problems."
Mayor - I think that's a good idea. Well Mr. Hovis as I understand it has told
Mr. Hopkins he would continue as a member of the Board."
Hopkins -I talked to him today and now it's Maybe and Maybe Not."
Beals - "Surely he would attend that one meeting."
MINUTES N4 923
Henry Czech - "Mr. Mayor may I say a few words?"
Mayor_ "Certainly, go ahead."
Czech - I think that a year or year and a half ago the question of reduction of the
size of he P & Z Commission came up and the Charter says there must be 11 members,
is that correct?"
Hopkins - As of right now, Yes, Sir."
Czech - "Now on the basis of the legislature MAY change., if the P & Z Board takes
act on on May 1st and not legally constituted, would their actions be legal?"
Beals - "Probably not but the fact that Messrs. Dupee and Hovis would agree to serve."
Czech - "I don't think that brings it up to 11, does it Bob?"
Hopkins - "It brings it up to 11 as we have Messrs. Baird and VanderMeer."
Czech - "Haven't you accepted their resignations?"
Smoak - "Yes, Sir, we did."
Czech- "Then they cannot be included."
Beals - Was it formally accepted? Well they could be reappointed for one meeting."
Smoak - "I think all you need is a quorum."
Czech - "Claude the question came up a year and a half ago and it was stated that the
ega number of members of the Commission was 11- I'm only bringing it up because I
don't think the P & Z Board should be asked to operate in anything but a legal manner -
we do not have 11 members now -and the Charter says there should be ll."
Beals - Mr. Czech, if a member of the City Council expired you would have only 4
Co— u� members but I think they could legally transact business, etc. until such
time as substitutions are made."
Czech "Charles that is what you think, but what is legal? The only thing I want is
to be sure that we don't ask the members to come out and then find out that what they
act on is not legal.`
Smoak - "I agree 100V
Vason - It says flat 11 members, but it doesn't say anything about a quorum -no quorum
requirement."
Beals - "It seems incredible to me that anything that would be done would be challenged
in the courts and nullified -after all they are just an advisory board."
Byrd - "I feel like Mr. Czech though, if you're gonna have, you might as well play
by the rules."
Beals - "That Charter calls for a city marshall -we don't have a marshall-we've got a
cciief of police."
Hopkins - "I believe the Code of Ordinances calls for ----"
Beals- If you start looking for discrepancies in there, you!re going to be able to
find the - I think we're---"
Czech - "Well then let's not have a book"
Beals - I don't think you'll ever have a book that thick that's going to be lett er
perfect, Mr. Czech."
Czech - I agree with you -the only reason -I'm not bringing this up for any personal
Fea—son-ITm doing this for the good of the city -I think when it says 11, it should be ll."
Mayor - Well the action taken by the P & Z Board is advisory -nothing binding or
final about it -if the Council sat on the recommendations of the P & Z Board -we'd
have to have a quorum -we'd have to vote to either turn down the recommendations
of the P & Z Board or uphold the recommendation -and really then you're just acting
in an advisory capacity to the Council."
Czech - Well if that's the opinion, that's fine - the only thing I go back to is what
happened a year and a half ago when you were told that it had to be ll."
MINUTES Nn 924
Vason - "That would be my opinion also -from reading the Charter the Charter does require
t at t ore be 11 members of the P & Z Commission."
Beals And what are the ramifications if there are not?"
Vason a Well no one ever challenges -there are no ramifications whatsoever."
Beals- What is there to challenge of an advisory board? I mean the fact that the
arter calls for 11 doesn't even refer to how may a quorum would be, I'd be lead to
believe that unless 11 members were there it would be null and void in the action
they took anyway."
Burd - "It appears to me that short of a court trial, that if a member of the P & Z
ommmission itself challenges the number of members that that in itself is a challenge,
particularly if he is the Chairman."
Smoak - " I agree with Mr. Czech - if it cal for 11, let's have 11 until the
tas to legislative body accepts our charter changes and reduces it to 7 members."
Mayor - " How many members do we have now? Appointed members of the P & Z Board?"
Czech - "You have 7 permanent members and two whose terms expire in April of '73
making a total of 9."
Beals - "Well let's ask Mr. Dupee - maybe Messrs. Baird and VanderMeer will agree."
Mayor - "1 don't think Mr. VanderMeer can, he no longer lives in the city."
Smoak - "Possibly Mrs. Dupee and Mr. Loomis."
Beals - "Would you mind- you don't even have to attend the May meeting there would
era quorum probably -you'd just agree to be the llth member."
Mayor - Just a short term, Mr. Loomis."
City Clerk- "Your honor is this reappointment on Dupee and Hovis and new appointment
Tor -Mr. and Mrs. Oupee?"
Mayor - "Mrs. Dupee was mentioned in order to get this legal."
Beals - "Mrs. Dupee would you serve?"
Mayor: - What would you make that - a 60 day appointement? until we can get the action
of the legislature and then we can relieve them of their duties."
Vason - "I would appoint them for two years, Your Honor - if you're gonna follow
t e book, the book says you've got to appoint them for 2 years
Smoak - "The book says 6 for 2 years and 5 for 1 year." j
Hopkins -"That was initially though, was it not."
i
Vason - "Allright, the vacancy you can appoint for the unexpired term."
Beals - "Then likewise if a council member expired in the middle of the year his
successor would be appointed for two years so it would go beyond the next general election."
Mayor - "If I understand this, a vacancy occurred with Messrs. VanderMeer and Baird
and it would be the Council 's perogative to appoint two to take their place for the
remaining terms of their office."
Vason - "For the unexpired term."
Beals - "Ok you better pick two of these to replace two and two of the others to replace--"
a
Mayor - I think we have to appoint two to replace VanderMeer and Baird and make their
appointment to finish out the unexpired term of those two gentlemen and then have to
appoint two more for two year terms -isn't that right?"
Vason - "Not being familiar with when these original appointments were made"
Hopkins - "VanderMeer and Baird were appointed January of 1972." {'
Vason - "One year or two years?"
Hopkins "Two years. For calendar years 72 and 73 so their terms would have expired
with the appointements coming up in January."
Beals - "I don't know why men of good faith can'be be more pragmatic and just transact
MINUTES N4 9?F)
business in a more rational manner than this. the intent -everyone is aware of the
Intent- I think we're just complicating the issue -I want a city marshall appointed tonight
also."
Smoak - "Well the next meeting of this body Is on the 24th of April - that would still
give the Council time to find out -tic. 1- if the city ordinance changes have been
accepted by the state legislature -if they have not been then it will give the Council
time to appoint 4 members to maj(c it legal by the May meeting, so it would be my
suggestion that we table it until the next meeting and find out the results of the
action of the state legislature."
B eals - "I concur with that."
Mayor If that meets with the approval of the Council - does it take a motion
to table that? Well let's not gettoo technical with it - if it meets with the approval
of Council we'll table this until the next meeting and then we'll find out if the
state legislature has done anything and still appoint 4 members to be in accordance
with the ordinance. The next order of Business is -Bob, do you want' to call
a work meeting to see what we want to do on reapplying for that $150,000.00 loan?
and bring us up to date on what the requirements are and all the way they've changed
It around- I think we're about due for another work meeting -we haven't had one in a
few days
Smoak - "Is it so involved that it can't be conducted at a regular meeting?"
Hopkins "Well the requirements have changed that they are very reluctant, No. 1,
t s sn t part of this package, just some input -the Fla. Department of Pollution
Control is being very hesitant about accepting federal revenue sharing money as
the payback -you got to come up with a guarantee payback of the money that you borrow -
and there's no guarantee beyond June as far as federal revenue sharing money is
concerned -you've also got to have documentation from engineering reports, etc. to
support your claim of the estimated cost of construction whatever the project is -
initially they said you could have the money as long as you paid it back when you
said you would pay it back, now they're saying that you can draw it from the Department
of Pollution Control as you need it- the same way you would as if it were a house -
if you make any interest off it- you have to pay that interest back -if you don't
spend it within 30 days, you have to send it back."
Smoak - "From what you're saying then, we've got to have a complete set of engineering
plans'-
Hopkins - We've got to know exactly what we want to do. Now as far as Minnehaha
Estates is concerned -we've got the plans and I'm sure we can come up with estimates
based on those plans at todays prices to satisfy them, but then it would take federal
revenue sharing money over a 3 year period to pay the $100 or $150,000.00 to pay them
back- part of the original application was for acquisition of land - $30,000 of it
was- I don't think it's in our best interest now to pursue that"
Schroedel- Mr. Mayor why don't we have a work session to work these details out."
Hopkins - To start with, they were gonna make things easier for cities to get money
and now they're more complicated, you gotta have a whole staff of people just to get
out the reports on it"
Mayor _"What's your pleasure -want to call a work meeting to discuss -this further?
I think if there is any possible way we can get $150,000.00, we ought to get it, if we
can get it -that is if it isn't something we can't take care of -primarily we could
use that other money to repay that couldn't vie"
Hopkins - As of right now we don't have an acceptable program as federal revenue
sharing does not guarantee it for 3 years, the duration of this loan:'
Smoak - Would all the money be pledged that we would generate from Minnehaha Estates
in sewer collections -would it be pledged against the initial loan -the money borrowed
to put the collection lines in"
Hopkins - If you want to sewer assessments - Yes, I'm sure they would. If you want
to assessments, we would give them 10 years and we're gonna have to have this paid
back in three years"
Mayor - "How about the sewerage charge"
Hopkins - The service charge?"
MINUTES M 026
Mayor - 'Yeah."
Hopkins -"That was suggested as part of the payback?
Smoak - "It is my suggestion that you know 11101e about this than any of us whore we can
generate lay out a
where
down infact we can get it and
valuate itas towhetherort we want
Hopkins ,Well we've c?ot the commitment to Minnehaha Estates - we've also got the
pro em of effluent -we ve also got the prospects of some additional expenditures to
meet -Pollution Control, both Lake County and Florida -to meet new requirements it's
gonna take additional expenditures -right now we've got to start socking away i9,000.00
a month to meet interest payments -that's gonna take money out of general fund from
excise taxes because we're not generating that much in revenue -it's a complicated
ball game we're palying now and I don't know where the money is gonna come from to do
all these things -if I knew how mach we were gonna have to spend -then I'd be in a
little better position to say where we are gonna get x number of dollars -but I don't
know how much it's gonna be"
Schroedel -"How much do you expect to get back from this federal revenue sharing"
Hopkins - "We're getting 13 - we got a check for the first quarter of this year -
t was 15,000.00-for January, February and March"
Schroedel - "That was the first payment?
Hopkins - "We had received last year a total of about $50,000.00 and now we get a
check every 3 months and the one just received was for $15,000.00-so what we're
saying -we're gonna pledge $50,000.00 per year to pay off that 150,000.00 over 3
years -but there's no guarantee from the federal government that this program is going to
be funded past June - so they're saying, well you don't have a guarantee where you're
gonna get the money, how are you going to guarantee that you gonna pay the money
back"
Byrd - "Does the repayment schedule say it has to be within 3 years or less"
Hopkins - 3 years sticks in my mind -in equal payments over the life of the loan not to
exceed-3
3 years -what they're saying is -you've got to go after some long term financing
or something and we want you to be able to guarantee to us this money is gonna
be available when it is due and we want it paid back in 3 years regardless of how
much you borrow in order words if you're gonna sell revenue bonds and get 5 million
dollars sometime within the next 3 years and they're saying when you get that money
back you pay us back so you can go ahead and get started and don't have to wait
until you get your long term financing settled"
Beals - "Do you think it's appropriate to have a special meeting of the Council now
or better get with the engineer and Jahn Fleming and come up with some proposals"
HHoopkkin�s -Well this business of the degree of treatment for the effluent -that's the
problem that's handing over our heads now- the 90% treatment that we're getting that
meets state standards - does not meet Lake County standards"
Beals - Well Lake County is the most stringent in the United States"
Hopkins - "That's true, but nevertheless they are the ones that we've got to satisfy
Beals - "I wonder if we do have to"
Hopkins - Well to just give you some idea of the cost we may be confronted with as far
as advanced waste water treatment, and I'll just say this for the benefit of the
audience, if we have to go to advanced waste water treatment to satisfy the requirements
of the Pollution Control Board and according to that Oklawaha Plan we've got until
August of 1976 to satisfy those requirement -it's gonna cost us about, for advanced
waste water treatment, $441.00 per mill' p gallons per day to treat it and that
comes to about $161,000.00 per year to/ 04t the stuff -now if we've got a half
million gallon plant running 5 to 600 thousand gallons per day and based on the 15 hundred
hookups we've got now we're talking about a minimum of $12.00 per month for sanitary
sewer service charge just to pay for the operation- are people gonna settle for that -
where are we gonna get the money to make this improvement -not the debt obligation, but
to pay back for the additional construction -we're talking about another quarter of
million dollars, something like that -so their alternative to us for which economics
is not a factor as far as they're concerned -so I don't know where we are"
MINUTES N4 927
Mayor Well I still believe and I always will that until they change my mind that
i don't give a darn how much the Pollution Board wants you to do -they can't make
you do something that you can't do -they've got to pull in their horns somewhere -it's
allright to tell a person what they want you to do, but then if you can show them
that you can't do it -they're not gonna shut our sewer plant down
Hopkins -"Yes, but they can stop you from hooking up any more"
Smoak - "They're trying to correct all the abuses of the past millenium overnight and
you ust can't do it"
MMa oar -"I don't think so either -you've got to give and take in any situation and they're
taking and not giving and they've got to give a little"
Hapkinss"Well by comparison, Florida is one of the few states, if not the only,
t ah t requires 90% treatment. Lake County is the only county in the State of Florida
that requires drinking water quality."
Mayor - 'Only one in the United States. Well they've got high ideals but it's time
t ey recognize those ideals are something else again"
Hopkins - "Well we've just engaged an engineer to figure out how in the world that we're
gonna meet these standards and all that costs money"
Mayor - "Well, we've got to show that our intent is good"
Beals - "Now you'll be out of town next Tuesday, won"t you?"
Hopkins - "Y es, I will"
Beals - "Can it wait until after -maybe the next meeting or something"
Hopkins - "I think so -I just want you to be aware that they've thrown it back at us
and we need to reconsider it"
Mayor "The next thing is the wage and salary schedule and Mr. Hopkins recommendation
that it be implemented as of May lst"
Smoak - "Bob, what do you estimate the cost to the city based on your full complement
of employees"
Hopkins - :$14,000."
Smoak - "That would be the annual increase? the increase based on May 1st?
Ho kerns - "It would be for 6 months - it would be a recurring cost of at least double
that
Smoak_ "What is your percentage of a full complement now"
Hopkins - "We've got budgeted 46 employees and at my last count we had 5 vacancies- 26%
of our complement is either vacant or less than 6 months - the last day or two we have
hired a couple of people - I don't know how long they'll last but they still fall in
this 6 months or less or vacant -we've still got I believe 3 vacanies"
Smoak - "Well there's no question that there is tremendous competition for anyone
capable of doing any kind of job in this area -especially common labor -but the degree
of competition from the construction industry -the degree of competition from the small
industrial complexes going in -particularly the tourist oriented people -it's just tremendous
and I feel it just as much as anybody -I would suggest that we go along with your
recommendation knowing full well that I really don't think this is the answer because even
with the increase that you're talking about you're still not in the ball game from a
competitive standpoint with outside industries -you're not even competitive with me and
I've got 49.8% of my complement that's been here 2 days and the rest of them are now"
H2pkins - I would be the first one to admit that and I would also say that at this
point and time it's all that we can afford -I had a meeting with the employees and I said,
"Why are you working for the city? well, there are a number of reasons why they work
for the city- job security -they like their boss -they like thevworking conditions and
several other things, but they are quick to remind you that they can go up to the
Holiday Inn and get a dollar more per hour -we're not interested in that, but we
would at least like to get enough to put bread on the table and you know that we're
hurting -I'm trying to build a program around their needs so I can keep them knowing
that the money is not the sole thing but has to be enough to feed their families"
MINUTES N!► -9za
Smoak - " Mr. Mayor I move that the Council approve the recommendation of the City
RFnaagerm his revised wage and salary schedule"
Boats -" I"11 second it"
The Ayes were unanimous and Mayor Smith ordered the motion carried.
Mayor - "Next item is to discuss the employee incentive program'
Smoak - "I worked at place called Maas Bros. in Lakeland where they had a situation
TTFe__tVs -the first Saturday of every month there was an employee coffee before the
store opened and there was an employee of the month type of arrangement and I think it
caused more consternation among the employee than anything else that happened it
may not be true in this case - I don't really think it improve morale at all"
Beals - "if I right speak against motherhood, I thought the same thing -maybe an employee
of the year or something"
Smoak - If you've got 46 employee complement right now and assuming that every one
of your employees are good enough to be this -he's got to be there 4 years to even be
recognized'
Schroedel =Can they win it more than one time "
Hopkins -"Yeah, sure"
Smoak - "How may departments to you have"
Hopkins- :Three:
Smoak - °I think if you could work it out on a departmental basis every quarter and attain..;.!:
what you want to do and let the employees in that department choose the person.
Hopkins "I don't know what the answer is but based on your convents on some type of
rar mmental thing might be appropriate -when I do a good job I like to be recognized
I feel sure they feel the same way' - I attempt every opportunity I have to get
around and talk with them and let them know at least that we're interested in what
they're doing and what their problems are- I would just like some way to recognize them"
Smoak - "Well Maas Bros. had an alternative to this program where they dropped this
program and went to a department head inventive program whereby the department head
could pick out any employee any week for performances above and beyond duty and put
an extra ten dollars in his pay envelope with a note attached saying that we appreciate
the good job your doing and that might be the only ten he got that year, but it really
let them know that they did recognize him"
Mayor- 'I think perhaps we ought to let this ride at the present time and let Bob think
t over a little more"
Schroedel -"How high up the line would you go - foreman? supervisor?
Hopkins - "Well as I indicated in my memo, we'd probably have a committee of three and
then I thought well with a committee of three, those three were apt not to get recognized
because those people would be reluctant to say they were the ones to be recognized,
so I thought that maybe the first three department heads could recommend their people
to me and I'd make the decision on the first three that were selected would end up
on this committee -you've got all kinds of problems in trying to implement something like
this"
Mayor- "I think if maybe going b y departments and have those men competing for it in
t eir own department, so you wouldn't have a man on the police force competing with a man
that is a laborer out on the job
Beals - "Council would be included, wouldn't they"
Hopkins "The City Manager is"
Mayor - "Well how about this money deal down here on the Bumby and Stimpson-the transfer of
funds, etc. -you need action on that, Bob?"
Hopkins - "Yes, Sir, the contractor is threatening my head if I don't pay him -I've got
enough problems without that"
Mayor - Will you enumerate please"
MINUTES N9 929
Il��oppk n ""What has happened is that the job over -ran -by a sizeable amount of money-
ovk;ri ,�00.00, but the over -run as I have indicated was because of extensions -additional
paving and what have you -there was a considerable amount of additional resurfacing done
on some streets that were designated as cut and patch and as I also indicated, vie didn't
rat prior approval -we didn't get the information -but I am satisfied that there about
70,000.00 or so that went to this resurfacing and rather than transfer it as an expense
to the ubility, I suggest that we earmark it as resurfacing from the general fund which
would have been necessary eventually anyway -I think it's a legitimate general fund
expense- I need to transfer $70,000.00 right now so that I can pay the contractor -now
as the engineers payments come due and vie settle up with him -in addition to the
federal grant money, vie will need another probably $25,000 to $30,000 which would be
transferred later, which would be a legitimate construction expense as opposed to this"
Smoak - "What you're saying is that you've got the $70,000.00 in the general fund
anU you Tust want authorization to spend it for resurfacing. Where is the money now?"
CityM Mork - It is in the general fund contingency account and a Budget Amendment is
nee- oded to transfer it to Capital Outlay -Street Resurfacing"
Smoak - "I so move"
_,yor- '"Would you read the motion please"
City Clerk - "A budget amendment to transfer $70,000.00 from the Community Services
Contingency Account to Capital Outlay -Street Resurfacing"
Beals - "Ill second it"
The Ayes were unanimous and the Mayor ordered the motion carried.
Hopkins "Your honor there is one additional item on engineering review on subdivisions
an -vi at I want is authorization to invite Dawkins and Associates to review subdivision
or planned unit development plans -drainage -sanitary sewer and this sort of thing
and make recommendations to the city as it's needed -project by project"
Mayor- "Have they given you any kind of estimate on that kind of work"
Hopkins - "This would vary on the size of the job and the necessary work but the rates
etween engineering firms are comparable"
Smoak - "Well I can't see spending $2,000 on anything like this and the charter
amen ments will approve the City Manager spending up to $2500.00 and certainly that
ought to cover it -any review of plans -so do you think additional authorization, is necessary
Hopkins cins -"Well I would like authorization to use Dawkins and Associates, just for the
record
Beals - "I would move that that authorization be granted"
Byrd - "I second it"
The Ayes were unanimous and the Mayor ordered that the motion be carried"
Beals - "Mr. Mayor before leaving the Manager's report, if we might backtrack just a
minute, on this matter of the Planning and Zoning Board appointements, for several
years I have tried to get this Board reduced in number, not for any ulterior
motive other than I think the fewer number could serve more effectively and it seems
like everytime it's in view someone comes up with a technicality which acts as a
stumbling block and just for my own clarification now, who is the burden on as far
as legislative action, does Dick have what he needs or should we be talking to you Bob
or should we be talking to Dick or just who"
Mayor - "It;s already up before the legislature"
Beals -"It's been drawn- I mean we're not going to come back to the next meeting and
somebody would have fumbled the ball and it not be---"
Vason - "Now Dick and I - Dick said that he would push the bill through for us, but
I plan to work very closely with him and some other people ithat I know in Tallahassee
and make sure that the bill does get through"
Beals - "Then as far as you see-forsee-there will be no-- if I can help in the drafting
of it or hand carrying it to Tallahassee -I'll be glad to"
Mayor - As.I understand it, it's already up there
Beals - "No'
MINUTES Nn 93o,
Vason -"No, we're gonna try to got it up there tomorrow morning
Beals -"You're going to Tallahassee"
Vason - "No, I'm gonna mail it to him"
Mayor - "Is it ready to mall"
Vason - "Yes, Sir"
Byrd - "The way the mail service is, it might: never get there"
Vason - "If it meets with the approval, you know, of Council here tonight as far
as tR—ccontents thereof"
Ma or- "Welt I think we already agreed with that - we've all had a copy of the
recommended changes in the Chartm and it's just a question now of getting it up there
before the legislature and having Dick push it"
Smoak - "Bob, one question on this tole -prompter cable TV - in their construction
program, are they gonna dig thru these resurfaced street"
Ho kins-' No, they're putting all theirs on Florida Power and telephone lines -
they've got a lead in out here west of town and it will come in on poles and came
off the poles into your hosue just like the telephone wires"
Schroedel -"Where are they gonna erect the tower"
Hopkins - "It's out near the -on the road going into the city dump -out west of town
somewFere"
Mayor - City Attorney, any report?
Vason - "Nothing in particular - than that I feel the council members should be advised
as to our very information meeting that we had last Tuesday with the Judge and Mr.
Ford on our condemnation proceedings -I attended the hearing with the City Manager
and Mayor Smith and if we didn't leam anything else we learned why justice is so slow -
we hatched quite a few war stories out -we did come to some agreement with Mr. Fiord and his
cl.i.bnt, Peter Johnson, and Judge Hall signed the order Monday of This week, I was
told, although I haven't received a copy of the order as yet -we will acquire possession
of the property south of Osceola Street at 12:01 A.M. tomorrow morning or whenver
we deposit the $24,000.00 which the court declared that we should deposit -whichever
occurs first -now we gave Mr. Johnson an additional week to get his fruit off was why
there was some delay between last Tuesday and this week -and then on the property that
Mr. Johnson owns on the north side of Osceola -that's in Block 143, I think, he asked
until May 15th to remove his fruit from that property, or, if he removed the
fruit prior to that time, we can acquire possession of that portion of the property
immediately"
Schroedel - "That don't mean that $24,000.00 is gonna be the final --
Vason - "No"
Beals - "Does that indicate anything at all"
Vason - "It indicates that the agreement that Mr. Ford and Mr. Johnson and the Mayor
and t e City Manager and myself came to last Tuesday afternoon -we're not precluded
from obtaining a lower award from the jury, but by the same token they are not precluded
from being awarded a greater amount of compensation for the property. Mr. Johnson will
take $20,000.00 out of the court I'm sure ,as soon as we put it in he's entitled to
do that"
Beals - "To have the use of that money"
Vason -"Yes"
Beals - "And then if the court determines that its a lesser amount, he's-"
Vason - "He's liable to us with a difference and I believe that we can charge interest
to -he takes a change when he takes it out, but he has that right under the statute"
Mayor - "Do I understand that the city is liable for all expenses of the court proceedings
their lawyer and appraisers and jury and all"
Vason - "Yes, in this proceeding, that is correct"
AM. Affilk
MINUTES hn 931
Beals - "Our appraiser's findings are a matter of record - do you know who his appraiser
7 r_'
Vason - "As for as I know, they haven't retained one yet - they say they're going to"
Beals- "Well he can't just get any number that he wants to and the city pay for it,
can Te7r
Vason - "No, the statute says, reasonable fees and costs"
Byrd - Reasonable is whatever the Judge says?"
Vason - "The jury - the jury doesn't determine attorney fees though"
Mayor - "I hate to make this statement, but I just can't help but believe that after
going to that• meeting the other day and hearing Vis Ford talk and the discussion
up there, that we might have been better off if we had just bought that property and not
gone through all this - I hope I'm wrong"
Vason - "As an additional sideline -we may kill two birds with one stone anyway because in
tiTis particular proceeding it appears that our ordinance is in question when the
Tompsons and Charlie Johnson and the lots came -particularly when they requested that
variance -and of course we denied that variance on the basis of the particular ordinance
that we have in our code -that ordinance -particular provision of our code is for -quite possibl;
will come into play in this particular suit in that Mr. Johnson wants the market
value of 21 city lots and of course our contention is that because we have this
particular provision in our code- there are only 15 buildable city lots out there
and maybe that somewhere in the course of this proceeding that we will get some
judicial ruling on the validity of that particular code provision"
Beals - I didn't attend the court session the other day - I do recognize that Chris
orF�I�ic s a v ery competent attorney, but though I know the wheels of justice are
slow -that justice will prevail and I'm confident that it will be a good deal under
the $24,000.00"
61a.yor - I sincerely hope that you're right"
Hopkins - "I might make this observation - our representation in that hearing stood toe
to toe with Christopher Ford and I think we'll come out allright"
Mayor - "I was real proud of Bob, I really was"
Vason - "I appreciate that - thank you very much"
Beals - You'd be entitled to that $100.00 this month"
Vason - I would like the council members to keep in mind of possible suggestions for
the city retaining an appraiser - I don't think there is any particular push right now,
but we should start in that direction when we condemn the property"
Mayor - "We can use the one we got already, can't we"
Vason - "I wouldn't want to go with just one appraisal - I think that members of the
Council should keep in mind that we are going to need another appraisal"
Mayor - How soon do you need it, Bob?
Vason - The sooner we have it, the sooner we get started - the sooner we're gonna get
to trial"
Mayor - " Well the experience we've had in the past on getting an appraisal -sometimes
they drag their feet and take quite awhile to get an appraisal out to you -we were several
months in getting and appraisal on the city hall building -how about getting that man
from Leesburg to give us an appraisal, Mr. Howard?"
Beals - "Why don't we kick it around and think about it"
Hopkins - "Mr. Mayor may I interject one thing -it's on the same subject but doesn't
have anything to do with the appraisal -originally we were discussing this property -the
irrigation proposal of Rick Georges came up and was presented and I don't recall that
the Council took any action with respect to that particular proposal to go ahead or
what -I'm just bringing it up to think about so when we acquire all that property we can
give him sufficient notice as to whether we want to proceed if in fact we do"
!.:
Beals - "I'd like to ask Bob Vason another question - the court will ultimately
determine the fair market value of this property, but as of what date?"
MINUTES N4 932
Vason - "As of the date that we acquired possession, which is tomorrow or whenever
wo get the money over there"
Beals -Then any sales prior to that time could be used as comparable"
Smoak - "A question that I have on that - on the sewer assessments on the frontage
ts`eei1T-wTio is responsible for that"
Vason - "To be quite frank with you Mr. Smoak, I checked into the taxes but I
comp ete y overlooked that"
Smoak - "April 1st it was due and payable -and if we didn't acquire the property until
p7prril11 h wouldn't that be a lien against that property"
Vason - ;I think it was a lien even before that date"
Smoak - "Then we have determined that it was a legal lien as of April 1st and
he's gonna be responsible for the sewer assessment regardless of what he gets for the
property"
Vason - "Wouldn't it be funny if we foreclosed on his land and took it away from
7m r
Byrd d _ "lie couldn't get clear title to it until he clears the lien up"
Smoak - "The point I'm making is, he has 30 days to make arrangements with the city
to pay this lien - at the first of May if he hasn't made arrangements with the city
according to - anyway, you might look into that"
Vason -''That's very interesting, I will"
Schroedel - "What does it amount to"
Hopkins - "I don't have that information, but it's a sizable amount"
Schroedel - "Mr. Mayor can I say something? I attended a Library Board meeting yesterday
morning and they have 16,000 volumes up there now -an increase of 62 borrowers and
162 new volumes the last month -it's a growing concern -they have monthly expenditures
of between $1200 and $1300 a month and all their fines and fees and funds that
they generate from gifts all go into this to help make up the deficit and the council
should have received a letter from the library addressed to the Mayor and members
of the Council - they still want their $1200"
Mayor - "What do you mean they still want their $1200?
Schroedel - "That they asked for that was cut out"
Mayor - "Well that's not their $1200 unless the Council sees fit to give it to them"
Beals - Mr. Mayor along the same vein, I attended a Chamber of Commerce meeting the
other night and they're not going to be any too pleased if they don't get 2/5 of a mill
this year"
Schroedel - "Well the letter is very self -explanatory -they have expenses that are going
Up continually like everybody else and they have to pay more for help"
Smoak - "Mri Schroedel has anyone approached the idea of using the library on a
fee basis'
Schroedel - "How do you mean?"
Smoak - "How many cards do you have out?
Schroedel - "1600 or some odd"
Smoak - "If you would charge a dollar per year per card to city residents and an
a i� onaT one dollar to outside residents, do you think it would stop anyone from using
the library"
Ann Dupee - "I don't know, I'm not there when the people come in. City residents don't
pay anything - it's set up as a free public library"
Schroedel- "Well they asked for an increase in their budget and the city allowed the same
Ts the previous year"
Smoak - "Well I don't think that charging a $1.00 per year per card would keep anyone
from using the library and this would be one way of generating some income and certainly
it's a very worthwile thing -and basically be taxing the people who use the facility
instead of taxing the populous as a whole -I understand that there are many other things
MINUTES M 93:3
that are municipally owned that everyone pays for but not everyone uses"
Czech "Can an entire family use one card, Mrs. Dupeo?"
Du�oe " "Yes"
Deals - "There idents are
etting
nts
out their books arit's ��iprobably viunfair here htonthink sthough that gcharging efor ecards ocheck
would
generate $1600 because it would just encourage families to have one card in the
future and this reducing the number of cards issued. I even favor additional city
participation, but not in the middle of a fiscal year - I think it should come up at
budget time - I favored it at last budget time" was in
Smoak
ont
nancialiy"The
I'dlsaylet'islgorall thethis
way withbecause
libraryerllall the waygwith shape
the softball people and let's go all the way with the DeMolay people and help them
mwith oneytandryouoject know asdall well aseIodoetherdemands ontthee are thisrcity rightrnowefores for funds-thr.
the only thing I'm saying is that I believe that the money that the library is asking
for can be generated within house by the people who use the library without any trouble
and I don't think it would eliminate anyone from using the library
Schroedel- "The Library Board is asking for $1200 in revenue sharing money -that's what
t ey are asking"
Smoak - "I think the Library Board is asking for $1200 pepi6d."
Beals - "What about Chambers of Commerce, were they designated for top priority also
in tFe revenue sharing monies"
Dupee - "Many of your Chambers are independent, but the library is city owned"
Schroedel - " That bri%s up another question, they want to know - the Library Board
rece ve a bill for "� for the front footage- are they expected to pay it"
Hopkins -"Well we've got to go back and read the Minutes of the Public Hearing and find
out what the Council at that time told them they were going to do - I have no idea -
it was picked up by the engineers for assessment because on the tax roll it is not
listed under City of Clermont. I'll have to check it out"
Schroedel - "Well they want to know if they can reapply for this $1200.00 - in another
mont s - if you turn them down this time, can they reapply in another 3 months"
Hopkins - "They have reapplied and as I recall they were told a few months ago
that vie would review the budget at 6 months it's amost time but we haven't reviewed
Yet.,
Mayor - "Payment of the bills - any questions by any member"
Schroedel - "I was under the impression that the Jaycee Beach pavilion was a gift to
The cityr
Beals - "They were going to run that through the city treasury in order to not pay
sales tax"
Hopkins -"They have deposited $5,000.00 with us and we are deducting their expenses"
Schroedel "How soon will the building be ready"
Hopkins - "The foundation is all ready, I think they're waiting on Konsler Steel now"
Schroedel - "I move that the bills be paid"
Beals - "I second it"
,,The Ayes were unanimous and Mayor Smith declared that the motion be carried
Mayor - "The next order of business is an Ordinance"
DER
CODE
CITYnOF CLERMONT,OFLORIDA, AMENDING�SUB-SECTION AN C(E)N(2) OFESECCT ONF26-25NOFCES OF S
THE CODE
OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT, FLORIDA: ESTABLISHING SIDE YARD SETBACK REQUIRE-
MENTS IN C2 GENERAL COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT: REPEALING ALL ORDINANCES IN CONFLICT
HEREWITH: PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY: PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE: AND PROVIDING FOR
PUBLICATION BY POSTING"
Schroedel -"I'll introduce it for first reading, Mr. Mayor"
Mayor - "Anything under old business?"
MINUTES N9 934
Schroodel - "Has Mr. Beals approached the Chamber of Commerce about a greyhound
TUFUMFOt?
Beals•- "You know I met with them once since the last meeting and I forgot all about
tiaa t until after the meeting - it occurred to me shortly after that I hadn't taken
it up with them - I will do that though- I don't think they're gonna be too receptive
though"
B rd - " We've talked about the traffic situation on Highway 1150 before and I'd
b to restate anything that the Council, collectively or individually or if they
know anybody that has any political muscle to get something done about that thing -
I'd also like for us to investigate how other cities like Winter Garden and Groveland
get traffic lights on that thing and if we can't do anything about widening it,
let's at least see what we can do about getting some lights up there"
Mayor Mr. Dupee here had a very good idea -we don't seem to get to first base
n Oe and and I think it would be to our advantage to bring some pressure to bear
on our legislators in Tallahassee to get some action up there because I don't think
you're gonna get a thing out of Mr. Benedict- we haven't in the past
Czech - "Your honor at the time the 5th and 50 light was up, the Homeowners did
quite a bit of work with the Department of Transportation -we called their attention
to Groveland they said that the highway goes thru the business district of Groveland-
that's why those two stop lights are there, but that 5th and GO was not the business
district of Clermont therefore they wouldn't put a stop light up there -but of course
the city did eventually anyway
Ma oy r - "They gave us permission, but vie had to pay for it"
Gzech - "Yes, you had to pay for it, but if it goes thru the business district,
t ey ll put them in"
Byrd - "Well that thing has been scaring me for months, but I went out to the new
shopping center on Saturday and traffic is just unbelievable -I was beginning to
wonder how I was gonna get back on the other side of 50 so I could get home"
Beals - "I'd like to do anything to exert pressure in Tallahassee or whatever -but as
futi a as it has been in the past, I think we should have a delegation go back
to Deland"
Fe
- "How about since we've got banking interests in other cities that are located
e,ave they got any political muscle somewhere
Czech - "Yes they have and they're working on it"
Byrd - "There's bound to be some way to get a light on that highway out there - I think
Bloxam is the worst place now and East Avenue would be a close second"
Beals - "I'd like to see a place where the children could at least walk over the
h gFway, but I understand that one in Tavares cost something like $180,000 and I'm sure
the DOT would be agreeable in letting the city do something like that, but I don't
think they're gonna participate - I still think we ought to work on DeLand- with
all due respect -Lake County now has three freshmen members of a minoroty party
representing them -that's the Lake County legislative delegation and with all due
respect I don't know that they're gonna have the muscle up there to do anything"
Mayor- "Anything under new business"
Beals -" I've got one item and it pertains to traffic also- I don't like one-way
streets, but we do have one already in Clermont that's Juniata between 7th and 8th
goining eastbound and would it be wise then to make Broome Street which parallels that
one-way westbound -I'm referring to Sundays, but it's impossible to go eastbound on
Broome Street, of course other than Sunday I don't know that it's necessary to
have Juniata one-way"
Hopkins - "That's primarily because of the hospital -it was for their convenience,
but it was all checked out ahead of time with the administrative board of the Methodist
Church"
Beals- "I have one other item, at a recent meeting of Council when we acted on an
ordinance that has been on the books for some time, but it hadn't been rigidly enforced
and the City Manager recommended that it be enforced and that's this thing of
requiring that limbs and trash and what have y.0 from
tr onpdoples yards be cut into 4
- foot lengths and placed in plastic bags and I if maybe that might not
have been done a little prematurely,,
MINUTLB NQ 035
,,a kins Well the only alternative in order to provide the service is to got another
ust can
isuto Apednupf�tileer two
colmen
lectionbecause
the leaves-tha rea�s0 npfor wl tthe t4afoot nd l�lengths-even
e reason for the bags
thought we can pick up larger bundles with the hydraulic lift with one load you
fill up a truck -you've got branches all over the truck -we just need some assitance-
from the people to keep the cost of trash collection down"
Beals - "People tell me that the truck has just gone by their house and not
pce tup
Hopkins_uThe reason for that is in order to catch up, we've put out some dump
trucFs
wait for one man and if dhave
him
t
r the mechanical loader come byitwastoo much for aus
oforejustv+one�onna man"
have
Beals - "What's the policy at the dump if somebody chose to carry there own trash
to e p the city"
Hopkins -"They would have to pay to dump it"
Smythe -- "I believe it's free now - I'm pretty sure it is for passenger cars and
pos— sibly pickup trucks also"
14avor - _ "Anything under new business"
Smoak "Mr. Mayor I think that the City Council between now and the election
ls
sent to
rmont
as fareaseannexationaof additionalearearinto athe tcity ewith one tprimary he 1pure of e purpose and
that being an area zoned R-2 and R-3 for low cost housing -there is a crying need for it
in this area -we have none in the area -we have no area that it can be developed
really -I think that the only way we're gonna find the land within the city limits
to do that is to bring new land into the city limits and hopefully some of the
property owners that will be willing to go in that type of an area -the only houses
that are being built right now are houses that people simply cannot afford -I think
also we need to think in terms of an industrial area in additional to this lower
property that was rezoned for light industrial use -I think that we ought to have
some concrete proposals to present to the people of Clermont and the surrounding
areas on this November election coming up -with these two primary objectives in mind-
I think that it's not too early to start thinking about it -a great deal of home work
and effort needs to be done in making the proposals and I'd like to see the City
Council have a town meeting regarding these two things -find out what the feelings of
the people are -let everyone who is interested come down and say this is what I
think or isn't what I think -Clermont is sitting in the middle of it -Bob knows about
things that are going on -I know about some things that are in the making that he
I
quick run out of land to build
probably doesn't know about -but we're gonna
anything on -so I think it's not too early to make some serious indepth studies
of how we want to go -where we want to go and when we want to do it and I think the
whole populous of Clermont ought to be invited to participate in it"
Beals - "I think also at the same time that Minneola should be approached and see if
they wouldn't"
Smoak - "I'd like to see something on the ballot in both towns if nothing else but
get a feeling of the temperament of the people"
Mayor - "I'm in accord with your idea Mr. Smoak, the only thing that comes to my mind
is the available ground to be annexed for R-3 property -where would we go"
Smoak - "I think we've got to find it and the only way we can do it is to sit down and
Took at a map"
The meeting was adjourned by Mayor Smith.
Don E. Smith
Dolores W. Carroll City Clerk
The routfi,t, bljs i t, � ), : 1 , , I w .,-, ] - - !';w; I - Thf, sanitary ;(�wr,r
assessrverit, rw:;I,: t.; 6 1',!, 11 t, !; J W rw-< i low tc I y two weeks
ago, To date Vl.! h, i iq�flo 1 1;36,000.00 inter,(.;t
paywent Being invested at Te,
We have received n tJ n r ul, :ti�m e:rciw Jule Prompter Cable TV.
The company has bvt, hi :or , (w,i� wo:Jnq propitration!; for the
cable TV ;!Iould commence in the very
near fUtUrO.
Arrangements iiav9 !":On
:i Lo ;1('�'� ;,I,,, (,*mj(;;.,,, League of Citler, meeting at
the Elks Club on 1.koi i : d.:,,. , April 'M. cjr t.lv! Council who desire to attend
should notify the , G1,rk 1)y I j;.Ti l?. The, speaker will be Lake
County Sheriff Guy 1 1k-,5.
In a memo dated Pprt : 6, 19/: '6z (j r", reminded of the need to make
additional appoiritm,;o;5', to tl_- .mf .ivdlici (Vmflssion. Unless the Charter
is changed by the flay of Oi(! ,n, adurciuiwl members will be
necessary to 1,nsur;! o,. quoN!11.
We have received '.1 )V Florida Department of Pollution
Control regarding uur n;,,j,i from the Revolving Loan Program.
It seems that R h,?w., place since our -initial
application and that _- in i I li-, c :!,I,, - Consid(!roble idditional Information
must be submitted i program to repay the loan
as well as enginaevf;i. rtat it,,; project to support the estimated
construction costs. to review these requirements
in a work SeSSjof)
In a work session on 2 .-, );i,' S,1.1a;,y Schedule was presented.
and discussed. V,- r.. mr .i:, plan be implernent-2d effective
May I. Council tjpl),.,! 11 ;.; -quested.
In a mcnio, dated April '>, ' /? ,:(i ,,, ` :o InrentIve Program be
Instituted to assi'.1, :J-1 good employees. We feel that
special recognition; viO i, corm of a savings bond is worth
trying. It is t,- ,e ri steel: an Employee of the Month
program as outlined ki Uic ;ij legs bond going to the employee.
We have received th= . inO sziiroli,! from, B-.�i:by G ';i:imp2Dn in the amount of
$121 690.92. We ar:T u;ci, (diM document approval by the
federal government I-alzinct? t,c,w (ji" "116,690.92. We have paid. them
$55,000.00 leaving a 1,�Aanca ('Ue 0: An additional expenditure of
approximately $28,000.110 1)., pe,y the engineers in addition to
the $122,690.00 from I:!JD aid EPA. As -,sNl:, a total of: approximately $95,000.00
must be expended from '.he Cenerzll Fend. l:: is recommended that $70,000.00 be
charged as a General Fund E-;tpense Air a(.1diclon-al resurfacing and transferred to
the Construction Accciint and that n5,000.00 he transferred to the Construction
Account as a loan. Ne,,;rssiry action at this time, will be authorization to expend
the $70,000.00 from the General FuTid for ;.he additional resurfacing and enable us
to pay the contractor.
In the Im udiate Future wa will hc; r•a,rlutrinq %tppt•al proposod developments, some
of which trill I,a, thnt i rgta. Since: v; Jon't: Imve personnel qualified to review
and evaluate englnr ing plans sthniti e{ by d .r:'lopers it is requested that we
be permittrri i:o cr,lane Birkin. on i In•o;ject basis to review plans
and make recommr2i16ac16ns,. llhile I don't have :peri is cost figures for this type
of arork, all c:ng•in(ioring fIr•ms charge cranperable rates. Council consideration
of this reeondnondation Is r^_quested•
From April 17 - !0 I trill bn cr.ttonding the! ?.?nd Southeastern Municipal Management
Institute at the university of Georgla. hying my absence Bob Smythe will bo
Acting City Manager.
Robert M. H V•ir
April ID, 1973 �
April 9, 1973
TO: CLERMONT CITY COUNCIL
FROM: RAY COCHRAN
RE: WILLIE & BEATRICE LOTT - VARIANCE FOR BUILDING
HOME Oil SMALL LOT
We have in our employ a man who helped build the Citrus Tower.
lie has been with this organization since the Tower opened in
1956. He is no better or no worse a man than you and I. He
works 60 to 70 hours a week and lives with and supports a wife
and a grandson.
Ile is Willie Lott and he has lived in a rented house since
being in Clermont. Now he earns enough to feel that he can i.
own a house. Recently he and his wife bought a lot and arranged �.
to have a house built.
Then they found that City ordinances prohibited building on a i
lot 45 feet wide although the lot was of record and side yard
set -backs, etc. were to be complied with.
I believe there are others in the same predicament in Lincoln
Park. a
Perhaps you will agree with me on these points:
. Buz
1. There is limited space for low cost housing in Clermont.
2. There is a need for more of this type housing for workers +�
needed in our expanding economy.
3. Apartments, condominiums and mobile housing units take up
less space than this lot provides.
4. There is no longer a need for extensive lawn space for septic
tanks and drainage fields.
5. A man who works 60 to 70 hours a week does not need a large
lawn to care for.
I sincerely hope and believe that you will consider favorably
this and other requests for variance on individual needs. I
do not suggest that you relax the high standards expressed
generally in the zoning ordinances. j
Respectfully lyours,
R. 0chran w
ACCOUNTS PAYABLE
r
GENERAL.
AmnCordnm Printing r, Litho Corp.
(Office Supplies)
$ 22.75
Clermont Builders Supply
(Jaycee Beach PavIIII00)
1272.70
(Copy Machine Supplies)
157.80
Col Ilegntrom
Clermont Auto Parts, Inc.
(Vehicle Maintenance)
50.99
Croomons Chevrolet, Inc.
(Vehicle Maintenance)
t0.88
(Park E Playground Malnt.)
1.42
Clermont Appliance
Clermont Hardware E Supply Co.
(Minor Equipment) Pment)
55.55
Clermont Builders Supply
(Materials, Building Malnt.)
124.34
D E D Fifth Street Grocery
(Prisoner Expense)
28.30
(Camera Supplies, Prisoner)
27.69
Eckerd Drugs
Expense
Engel's
F E R Office Supply, Inc.
Firestone Stores
(Uniforms)
(Office Supplies)
('fires, Batteries)
23.00
51.51
120.08
Greenlee, Paul E Furnas
(Audit)
2250.00
Gem Chemical
Goodyear Service Stores
(Building Maintenance)
(Tires E Batteries)
115.95
261.28
Graham -Jones Paper Company
Hydraulic Supply Company
Hughes Supply, Inc.
Hilltop Stationery
Hunt's Garden Center, Inc.
Inland Equipment Company
(Plastic Bags)
(Hose)
(Water Cooler)
(Office Supplies)
(Maint. - Parks, Materials)
(Equipment Maintenance)
79.50
6.96
207.23
63.24
30.65
42.42
Jack Cocke E Co., Inc.
(Street Signs)
60.00
Jim Willis Hardware E Supply
(Minor Equipment)
23.00
John B. Newsom
(Gear Lube)
36.00
Kirkland Cabinet Shop E Paint Store
(Building Maintenance)
8.03
Kennon Bearing Service, Inc.
Konsler Steel Company
(Equipment Maintenance)
(Minor Equipment, Materials)
22.03
34.43
Lake Apopka Gas District
(Utilities)
19.10
Memorial Bronze Division
(Memorials)
56.00
National Fire Protection Association
(Pamphlets)
4.i4
National Linen Service
(Building Maintenance)
4.00
Orlando Paving Company
(Asphalt)
46.68
Poynter-liardor Construction Co., Inc.
(Jaycee Boneh PnvIIIIon)
376,16
Southern Building Code Publishing Co. Inc.
(Coda Books)
9.21
Standard Auto Parts, Inc.
(Vehicle a Equipment Mnint.
Minor Equipment)
96.50
Sears Roebuck and Company
(Refrigerator-Jankins Aud.)
289.95
Texaco
(Gas 6 011)
47.85
Robert F. Vason, Jr.
(Legal Expense)
186.25
W. M. Teal
(Gas L 011)
524.14
W.S.W. Mining, Inc.
(Sand)
16.20
Yocam Batteries
(Equipment a Vehicle Maint.)
27.95
UTILITIES
Allied Chlorine E Chemical Products, Inc.
(Chlorine)
99,50
B b H Sales
(Pipe fittings, Meters)
29.07
Badger Meter, Inc.
(Water Meter Malnt.)
38.34
Clermont Builders Supply
(Building Maintenance)
57.55------=-
Clermont Hardware s Supply Co., Inc.
(Materials, Vehicle Malnt.)
23.89
Clermont Auto Parts, Inc.
(Vehicle Maintenance)
14.07
Clermont Medical Center, P.A.
(Charles Goa-Injectlons)
8.00
Greenlee, Paul s Furnas
(Audit)
750.00
Hughes Supply, Inc.
(Pipe, Valves)
733.88
Hanks Electric Co., Inc.
(Wiring -Treatment Plant)
45.79
Leesburg Armature Works
(Irrigation System Pump Repairs)
97.50
Miller Bearing of Orlando, Inc.
(Building Maintenance)
66.15
Madden's Electrical Service
(Service)
10.50
Standard Auto Parts, Inc.
(Supplies)
2.05
South Lake Press
(Office Supplies)
18.80
i
United States Pipe Co.
(Pipe)
333.42
Valbro
(Office Supplies)
161.19
Yocam Batteries
(Vehicle Maintenance)
22.55