06-22-1999 Regular Meeting CITY OF CLERMONT
MINUTES
REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING
JUNE 22, 1999
A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Clermont was held Tuesday, June 22,
1999 at Jenkins Auditorium. The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Mayor
Turville with the following Council Members present: Council Member Biddle, Council
Member Brown, Council Member Lamb and Council Member Wolfe. Other City
officials present were City Manager Saunders, City Attorney Baird, Finance Director Van
Zile, and Deputy City Clerk Maddox.
INVOCATION
The Invocation was offered by Council Member Brown followed by the repeating of the
Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag by all present.
MINUTES
A motion was made by Council Member Brown and seconded by Council
Member Wolfe. and carried unanimously to approve the ~ninutes of the
re~o'ular Council Meeting held .luna 8. 1999.
~4 motion was made by Council Member Lamb and seconded by Council
Member Biddle, and carried unanimously to approve the minutes of the
Council Workshop Minutes of Janua~ 7, 1999 and January 14, 1999.
CITY MANAGER SAUNDERS' REPORT
Workshops
City Manager Saunders reminded the City Council of the workshop meeting scheduled
for 6:00 p.m., June 29, 1999 at the Police Department. Mr. Saunders stated that the
Council would receive a report from C.T. HSU Architects on preliminary ideas they have
for the new City Hall and their report to the Council on their investigation of the use of
the old hospital.
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City Manager Saunders stated that a joint workshop with the City Council and Planning
and Zoning Commission is scheduled for 6:00 p.m. on July 12, 1999, at the Police
Department and budget workshops are scheduled for 6:00 p.m. on July 14, 15, and 29,
1999, at the Police Department.
CITY ATTORNEY BAIRD
No report.
FINANCE DIRECTOR VAN ZILE
No report.
COUNCIL MEMBER BIDDLE
Mr. Biddle stated that on July 2, 1999, the Downtown Clermont Partnership will celebrate
its "First Friday" with a historical theme. Mr. Biddle stated the Historical Society would
have a membership drive, and some of the City's long-time citizens will be giving an oral
history of downtown Clermont. Council Member Biddle stated that many of the
downtown buildings will have their history posted on their buildings. Mr. Biddle invited
everyone to visit our downtown.
COUNCIL MEMBER BROWN
No report.
COUNCIL MEMBER LAMB
No report.
COUNCIL MEMBER WOLFE
No report.
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MAYOR TURVILLE
Mayor Turville stated that he will attend the Historical Society meeting on Thursday,
June 24, 1999 and asked if other Council Members were attending.
City Manager Saunders stated he would also attend and explained to the Council that if
more than one Council Member attends the meeting and a discussion is held regarding
something that may come before the City Council, it would either need to be scheduled as
a Council Workshop or the Council Members could not take part in the discussions.
VISITORS WITH BUSINESS
Fred Fox Enterprises, Inc.
David Fox announced this as the City of Clermont's Second Public Hearing in
preparation for the Community Development Block Grant application that benefits low
and moderate income persons. Mr. Fox stated Resolution 1074 authorizes Fred Fox
Enterprises to submit on behalf of the City of Clermont, the application to the Florida
Department of Community Affairs for a grant in the amount of $600,000.00 for twenty-
one rehabilitation or replacement units with a budget of $478,500.00; twenty one
relocations with a budget of $31,500 and an administration budget of $90,000.
Mr. Fox stated that Resolution 1073 regards the Relocation and Rehabilitation
Guidelines. Mr. Fox noted two typographical errors and stated that their office would
correct those and provide the corrected pages to the City Manager the next morning.
There were no questions ~om Council or the audience and Mr. Fox closed the Second
Public Hearing.
Resolution 1073
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1073 by title only.
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A motion was made by Council Member Wolfe and seconded
by Council Member Biddle, and carried unanimously, to
adopt Resolution 1073.
Resolution No. 1074
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1074 by title only.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried unanimously, to
adopt Resolution 1074.
Resolution No. 1068-Lake Christian Fellowship
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1068 by title only.
City Manager Saunders stated that the applicants are requesting a Conditional Use Permit
to operate a church in an existing building in the Citrus Tower Centre.
City Clerk Van Zile swore in the following citizens:
Jerry Gill, 550 Diston Avenue, Clermont, Florida
Bob Shaker, 230 Mohawk, Clermont, Florida
Gina Larken, 1033 Linden Street, Clermont, Florida
Anne Dupee, 389 Division Street, Clermont, Florida
Bob Thompson, 1958 Brantley Circle, Clermont, Florida
Mr. Gill stated the applicants wish to use the building in Citrus Tower Centre as a church
meeting assembly hall.
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City Manager Saunders stated that the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Staff
recommend approval of this request. Mr. Saunders stated there was adequate parking for
the facility.
Mr. Shaker stated he represents Jaymark Developers who have an interest in the property
across the street from the Citrus Tower Centre. Mr. Shaker stated that Jaymark was
concerned that they would not have full use of their property, which is already zoned
commercial, if a church was across the street. Mr. Shaker stated they will possibly have a
restaurant on their property that will serve alcoholic beverages and they are concerned
about the ordinance requiring them to be 500 feet from a church. Mr. Shaker stated they
would like some reassurance of full use of their property if the Conditional Use Permit is
approved.
City Manager Saunders stated that if a church establishes itself in a location and and then
a restaurant serving alcoholic beverages opens less than 500 feet from the church, that
would be a problem. Mr. Saunders stated that a church could agree however, not to
oppose a variance request from the restaurant when the variance was brought before the
Council at a future date.
Gina Larken asked if having a church in that location would change the tax basis for the
whole parcel and City Manager Saunders stated it would not.
Ann Dupee asked if the variance would only effect the property across the street or any
property in that vicinity and Mayor Turville stated it would be any property within the
physical confines of that ordinance which is 500 feet.
Bob Thompson stated there is a restaurant serving alcoholic beverages adjacent to this
and questioned whether this set a precedent and City Manager Saunders explained that it
was not a problem for the church to move within 500 feet of an existing business serving
alcohol, but for an establishment serving alcohol to move within 500 feet of a church is a
problem.
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Mayor Turville asked if the applicant had a problem with the condition suggested that the
Church would not oppose a variance request in the future. Mr. Gill stated the applicant
did not have a problem agreeing to not oppose a variance and advised that they were
going to be in the location for a short period of time. However, he stated he could not
speak for the Church because that would be a congregation decision.
,4 motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
b~v Council Member Wolfe, and carried unanimous(v, b.v roll
call vote, to ado.t~t Resolution 1068 as amended to state that
the Church will not o.~t~ose a variance request.
Resolution No. 1069-Moonlight Players
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1069 by title only.
City Manager Saunders that applicants are requesting a Conditional Use Permit to operate
a community theater in the Central Business District at the warehouse space behind the
Kirkland Building between 7th and 8th streets on Montrose Street.
City Clerk Van Zile swore in the following citizens:
Jan Sheldon, 17521 State Road 19, Groveland, Florida.
Jan Sheldon stated that the community theater has a non-profit status and would
appreciate approval from the Council for a permanent home for the theater.
City Manager Saunders stated that the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Staff
recommend approval.
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A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried unanimously: by roll
call vote, to adopt Resolution 1069.
Resolution No. 1070-First United Methodist Church
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1070 by title only.
City Manager Saunders stated the applicants are requesting a Conditional Use Permit for
the expansion of the church located at 950 7th Street. Mr. Saunders stated that the
Church plans to construct an addition to the existing sanctuary and the current parking
areas provide adequate parking to meet the requirements associated with the additional
seating.
City Clerk Van Zile swore in the following citizens:
Steven Cook, 9200 Edgewater Drive, Clermont, Florida.
Steven Cook stated he represents the applicants and that the project is to add
approximately 79 seats to the sanctuary and to bring the campus up to guidelines so they
will have better ingress and egress in accordance with the Disability Act.
City Manager Saunders stated that the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Staff
recommend approval.
A motion was made by Council Member Wolfe and seconded
by Council Member Lamb, and carried unanimousl~v, by roll
call vote, to adopt Resolution 1070.
? Y-/4 &
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Resolution No. 1071-David L. Allyn, M.D.
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1071 by title only.
City Manager Saunders stated that the applicants are requesting a Conditional Use Permit
to construct a medical office and ambulatory surgical center that will be located east of
the Citrus Tower Centre, south of Citrus Tower Boulevard.
City Clerk Van Zile swore in the following citizens:
Bob Thompson, 1958 Brantley Circle, Clermont, Florida
David Allyn, M.D., 349 North U.S. Highway 27, Clermont, Florida
Arthur Nix, 17550 County Road 455, Montverde, Florida
Bob Thompson stated that applicant would request that he be allowed to contribute to the
cost of adding west bound turn lane at the time the County reconfigures the area of
Mohawk Road, Grand Highway and Citrus Tower Boulevard to provide a T-intersection,
rather than provide the turn lane now.
City Manager Saunders stated that the Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend
approval and the Staff recommends approval as written but explained that the County is
planning to provide a T-intersection which will alter the road in front of this property, and
Staff would recommend that number six of the Conditional Use Permit state that the
applicant shall pay for the inclusion of a west bound turn lane on Citrus Tower Boulevard
at the time Lake County re-builds the intersection and roadway along the frontage of
applicant's property.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried unanimously, by roll
call vote, to adopt Resolution 1071, as amended stating that
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applicant shall pa.v for the inclusion q£a west bound turn lane
on Citrus Tower Boulevard at the time Lake coun~ rebuilds
the intersection and the roadway along the frontage qf
a.~t~licant's properS..
Resolution No. 1072-Jaymark Builders & Developers, Inc.
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
Mayor Turville read Resolution No. 1072 by title only.
City Manager Saunders stated the applicant previously received an approval for their
development that includes single and multi-family residential, commercial and light
industrial uses. The 3.5 acres consists of the 1.8 acre parcel purchased from the City and
an approximately 1.7 acre parcel purchased from the Gibb Family Trust. Mr. Saunders
stated no additional buildings are proposed for the added area and it will be used for
storm water retention.
City Clerk Van Zile swore in the following citizens:
Bob Shaker, 230 Mohawk, Clermont, Florida
Mr. Shaker represented the applicants and offered to answer any questions.
City Manager Saunders stated the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Staff
recommend approval of the Resolution.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried unanimously, by roll
call vote. to adopt Resolution 1072.
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Park Square Enterprises, Inc.
Mayor Turville stated that this issue requires a Quasi-Judicial Hearing be held and that
anyone wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the request should be sworn in.
City Manager Saunders stated the applicant is requesting a variance from our land
development regulations in order to allow private streets within a private gated
community for their project located on the future extension of North Hancock Road.
Attorney George Hovis represented the applicants and stated the private streets would be
maintained by the homeowners of the gated community.
City Manager Saunders stated that the staff recommends approval and added that the
private streets are required to be built to the City's standards with appropriate right-of-
ways and applicants are doing that.
Mayor Turville stated he had concerns that if the residents decide in the future not to take
care of the private streets, the City will have to maintain them. Mr. Turville stated that he
was concerned that if the homeowners did not maintain the streets, it would be difficult
for the City to take the voters to task.
City Manager Saunders explained that there is no requirement for the City to accept
private streets, and if the City decided to take them over and if the private streets were in
bad shape, the City could take them over with a requirement to bring them up to code or
with a special assessment. Mr. Saunders stated that it will save the City money as the
City will not have to maintain the streets for several years or provide and maintain
streetlights.
Council Member Wolfe stated gated communities were typically more expensive real
estate with a high tax base.
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Mr. Hovis stated that the subdivisions now have very detailed declarations of covenants
and restrictions that outline the responsibility of each property owner. Mr. Hovis stated if
a homeowners does not pay his share of the maintenance, the Association sues and a lien
is put on the property. Mr. Hovis further stated that the City is never under an obligation
to take the private streets into their street system.
A motion was ~ade by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried uttanimously, by roll
call vote to grant a variance to Park Square Enterprises to
allow private streets Within a private gated communi~. ..
Levitt Homes, Inc.
Levitt Homes, Inc. variance request tabled.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Brown, and carried unanimously to table
the variance reauest.
Cecil Schrader
Cecil Schrader variance request tabled.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Wolfe, and carried unanimously to table
the variance request.
Skyridge Valley
City Manager stated this is a final plat approval for the Centex Homes single family
project that is under construction and located south of the easterly extension of
Northridge Boulevard and east.of Citrus Tower Boulevard. Mr. Saunders stated that Staff
recommends approval of the final plat, subject to some additional right-of-way required
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for an intersection change that the County is planning on at the intersection of Northridge
and Citrus Tower Boulevard. Mr. Saunders stated the applicants have agreed to provide
that.
Council Member Biddle stated that at the recent joint meeting of the City Council and the
Planning and Zoning Commission the main focus was to try and eliminate the grading of
our hills. Council Member Biddle inquired as to the effect of that discussion on this
project.
City Manager Saunders stated that this project has already been approved and is under
construction.
Council Member Lamb stated that there is constant confusion as to the final approval of
plats and ask how we could clarify how this procedure was done so that the citizens could
understand it.
City Manager Saunders stated he would put together a flow chart so that the citizens
could understand and follow the process easier. Mr. Saunders stated he would also
provide a list of the projects that have already been approved.
A motion was made by Council Member Biddle and seconded
by Council Member Wol~fe. and carried unanimously to
a.~nrove the plat for Skyridge Valley, as amended to include
the requirement qf additional r~ht-qf-way.
NEW BUSINESS
City Attorney
Mr. Turville stated that Leonard Baird was currently the City Attorney and that Robert
Guthrie, Esquire from the firm of Frank Kruppenbacher, P. A. is being considered.
Mayor Turville has offered a fee proposal for Council review in considering him for the
position.
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Mayor Turville asked for any statements from the public.
County Commissioner Bob Pool stated that he served as Clermont's Mayor for a number
of years and a Council Member for almost 20 years. Mr. Pool stated City Attorney Baird
has done an admirable job for the City, has been an asset and was always available to the
City. Mr. Pool expressed that he was concerned about the future and well-being of the
City and citizens of Clermont and felt that while the other contenders for this position
were all qualified, there was no dollar value you could put on the knowledge and
experience of City Attorney Baird. County Commissioner Pool continued with
statements of support for Mr. Baird and closed by saying that he had received a number
of calls from people asking to speak on Attorney Baird's behalf and they were very
concerned; and not once has anyone said to him that the City should get rid of Attorney
Baird.
Attomey Richard Langley stated he was the City Attorney for the City of Clermont from
January, 1965 until he went to the legislature in 1972. Mr. Langley stated he also was a
member of the Lake County School Board and represented the School Board from 1993
to 1996. Mr. Langley stated that he felt part of this job is community service and
community involvement and that Mr. Baird was always there for the City. Mr. Langley
stated if the Council was looking for good service from a man who is involved in his
community, is responsible and responsive to the community, then the City should stick
with him. Mr. Langley continued with comments of support.
Ken Norquist stated he spent ten years on the City Council and when he first came on the
Council, City Attorney Baird assured him that his door was always open day or night with
any concerns of the City's. Mr. Norquist stated that he had relied on City Attorney
Baird's expertise and legal opinions many times. Mr. Norquist stated he felt it was
important that Mr. Baird was local, kept a small-town flavor, was completely accessible
and he could not imagine an out of town attorney being that available without it costing
the City considerably more than Mr. Baird.
Attorney George Hovis stated he was the person who hired Leonard Baird fresh from law
school twenty-eight years ago. Mr. Hovis stated he also knew the other attorney being
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considered and felt he was a qualified attorney, however, he was very expensive. Mr.
Hovis stated that from personal experience, over one-half of the work done for the City is
not billed, and what is billed is billed at a lower rate. Mr. Hovis stated that if a Council
Member had a personal problem with Mr. Baird, then should sit down with all the
Council Members and discuss it and work it out, but should not change City Attorneys for
personal reasons. Mr. Hovis stated that if the City wants a specialist for some problem,
hire one, but don't use the specialist all the time for that kind of fee.
Matthew Modica stated that Leonard Baird has always been there for him and maybe
some of the Council Members should bury the hatchet. Mr. Modica stated that Mr. Baird
had always done a good job for the City and the City should retain him as the City
Attorney.
Ann Dupee stated she served on the Council for ten years and said that it was her
understanding that the City Attorney should know what the City's Codes and Ordinances
are and make sure that the City Council follows those rules and regulations. Ms. Dupee
stated it was not the City Attorney's role to be the guiding person in what land use
regulations might be, but those were the duties of the Council Members. Ms. Dupee
stated she did not understand how an attorney specializing in land use was necessary.
Ms. Dupee stated her experience over those ten years she served as a Council Member
was that Mr. Baird kept the Council legal, whether they liked what they were hearing or
wanted to go another way or not. Ms. Dupee stated that Mr. Baird was always
professional.
Elaine Tarken stated that she was a one year resident of Clermont and does not know Mr.
Baird, however she was very concerned that twenty years of experience was being shoved
aside by the Council. Ms. Tarken stated that if there were Council Members with issues,
then they should work to resolve them with Mr. Baird before they hired an attorney that
did not live in our community. Ms. Tarken also stated that as a taxpayer she was very
concerned that the City would triple or quadruple the amount paid to a City Attorney on
someone out of town. Ms. Tarken stated that she felt confident that if Mr. Baird needed a
specialist in some area the Council would authorize him to consult that specialist. Ms.
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Tarken stated as a taxpayer and a citizen she was very concerned with what she was
seeing.
Ben Griffin stated that the Council loves Clermont or they wouldn't be doing the job of
the Council and he knows that City Attorney Baird has lived here all of his life and loves
Clermont and the citizens love him for what he does for our City. Mr. Griffin said it was
nice to know you had a City Attorney who love~l the community and could be called upon
for a favor without getting a bill every time. Mr. Griffin stated he felt it means a lot to
have people with roots in the community to help solve the community's problems. Mr.
Griffin stated that a lot of City Councils have come and gone, but Mr. Baird has always
been here like a rock and he loves Clermont and South Lake County and loves the
citizens.
Paul Anderson stated he had been conducting the fire inspections for the City of Clermont
for approximately nine years and spoke of the support given him by Mr. Baird.
Charlene Forth stated she felt she could predict who was going to attend the Council
meeting and speak on behalf of City Attorney Baird, "the good ole' friends, good ole'
boys club". After additional comments, Ms. Forth stated she felt the people spoke clearly
that they want a change. Ms. Forth stated that we shouldn't look at this as personal, but
as a business and the City needed to get on with that.
Charles Forth stated the issue was not whether City Attorney Baird was being attacked
personally and it was not an issue of what the taxpayers were going to spend, because
Commissioner Pool sits on the Commission in Lake County and he knows that 90% of
what a City gets in trouble for is land use issues. Mr. Forth stated that if the City retains
Mr. Baird he ought to raise his rates because compared to the County and Orlando, he is
too low. Mr. Forth stated that 90% of any municipalities, counties or cities problems are
going to be in the area of land use and that is what will tie us up in Court.
Bob Pool stated for the record that the City did in fact consult with a special land use
attorney prior to making the water usage decision and Mr. Baird did not make that
decision.
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Lisa Jensen stated that she had not heard anyone, including Mr. and Mrs. Forth, say that
City Attorney Baird was doing a bad job. Ms. Jensen stated she heard that someone may
have not liked something Mr. Baird said but not that he was doing a bad job for the City.
Charlene Forth stated that she would like to say for the record that she did say that City
Attorney Baird had possibly made a mistake regarding the City Manager issue and that
has gone to the A.C.L.U. for the taxpayers of the City of Clermont, and also she would
say for the record that Mr. Langley and Mr. Richey said they could not find that Mr.
Baird's decision was right regarding the City Manager issue.
Dick Teagon stated he was certainly happy that his corporation didn't decide, because he
was around for twenty years, that they needed a change or he probably wouldn't be here
today. Mr. Teagon stated that if this issue is brought before the Council for vote tonight,
during the discussion, he would request the Council Members state their reasons for their
vote and what the reasons are for a change.
Mayor Turville called for a motion so the Council could proceed.
Council Member Biddle made a motion to retain Mr. Baird as
the Ci~. Attorney and Mayor Turville seconded the motion.
Mayor Turville stated he had no problem at all with Mr. Baird and had known him all his
life which he guessed threw him into the "good ole boy" crowd. Mr. Turville stated he
would like to believe that people he had known all his life didn't turn into bad people for
some reason along the way and would like to believe that knowing someone for a long
time is probably makes you a better witness to their character than knowing someone for
a short time. Mayor Turville stated that he had fourteen years experience working with
Mr. Baird and there were many times that he went to Mr. Baird's office and asked him for
hard legal advice because he didn't agree with what the Council wanted to do, and Mr.
Baird always could advise him what the law said. Mayor Turville stated that Mr. Baird
was prepared to support whoever had the law supporting them and was not there if the
law did not support the decision. Mr. Turville stated that knowing that made him review
his thinking if Mr. Baird advised that he was on shaky legal grounds. Mayor Turville
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stated that historically, Mr. Baird's fees have been closer to $9,000.00 a year and this year
we have had special assistance from one of the most powerful land-use attorneys in the
State and we have had extra legal fees this year, but those are unusual. Mayor Turville
stated the City seldom ever had any legal expense that duplicated Mr. Baird's salary in
one given year. Mayor Turville stated we need to keep Mr. Baird who is local and
accessible and affordable and if the City has a special need, hire a specialist for that
special need. Mayor Turville stated that the City is reviewing the budget soon and the
taxpayers will not appreciate spending $30,000 or $40,000 a year for attorneys fees.
Council Member Biddle stated that there have been three workshops on this issue. He
stated that as he went through the list of attorneys discussed during those workshops, the
key things expressed by the Council Members were experience, cost, residency, access to
the Staff and Council, which is critical, trust, performance, and not having rotating
attorneys coming to meetings and stated that Leonard Baird met all of those criteria. He
stated further that all night long the Council voted together on the issues brought before it
and he felt that was not a bad thing, but the Council was working as a team. Council
Member stated he did not feel the City should pay $30,000, $40,000 or $50,000 a year
when we could be paying Mr. Baird what we have been paying him. Council Member
Biddle stated that if a specific unusual issue came up, the Council could hire an expert.
Mr. Biddle stated that Council Member Lamb ranked another attorney, with no land use
experience a number four and did not rank Mr. Baird at all. Mr. Biddle stated that was
not consistent with Ms. Lamb and Ms. Wolfe stating that land use experience was a
critical key here. Council Member Biddle stated that the City had already approved extra
money for the Fire Department, lighting a soccer field and other things that were not in
the budget. Mr. Biddle stated the starting salary for police officers was lower than
Mascotte and he felt that there were a lot of things the Council needed more money for
and a new attorney was not one of them. Mr. Biddle stated further that in response to the
"good ole boy" statement made, he had been in town for four years and three months, and
stated he must be the fastest "good ole' boy" on record. Council Member stated he did
not go to school with Mr. Baird, didn't know him other than seeing him at every Council
meeting and if it meant being a "good ole' boy" is protecting the City by wanting to keep
an experienced attorney, someone who wants a local attorney to represent the City, rather
than someone from Orlando, and someone who believes in protecting an attorney who has
done a good job for this City for twenty eight years, then his name should be put down as
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a "good ole' boy". Council Member Biddle stated he did not think there was a doubt in
anyone's mind that the City had the best attorney for the money, that the Council was
responsible to the taxpayers of the community, the City has had good legal advice for low
cost because Mr. Baird loves this City and does what he can to give back to it, and after
looking at other attorneys, he was convinced that the City had the best and any change
would be a critical to the City and taxpayers. Council Member Biddle stated that when
the Council voted regarding the 100,000 square foot Ordinance, after a five month debate,
the entire Council trusted Mr. Baird's legal opinion regarding that Ordinance and passed
the most critical ordinance the City had in years. Mr. Biddle stated that tonight would be
another critical vote and the citizens will remember this vote.
Council Member Wolfe stated he did not agree with Mr. Biddle and stated the easiest
thing to do would be to keep Mr. Baird since it was obvious that ninety percent of the
crowd feels that way. Mr. Wolfe stated this was first brought up January 7, 1999, and
realized then that Mr. Baird did not have a contract with the City and had not had a
contract with the City for about ten years. Council Member Biddle stated that City
Manager Saunders explained that Mr. Baird was on a month-to-month basis and Council
Member Wolfe stated he felt the City should have a City Attorney who was going to be
there in two months. Mr. Wolfe stated that eighty percent of the Council agreed that the
City should try to find the best City Attorney that it could afford. Mr. Biddle stated that
the City, after advertising received many applications and the selection came down to Mr.
Baird and Mr. Guthrie. Council Member Wolfe stated that the references for Mr. Guthrie
were all great. Mr. Wolfe stated it was not personal and that the easiest thing to do would
be to support Mr. Baird, but he could not in good conscience say that he felt Mr. Baird
was the best selection for the Council. Council Member Wolfe stated that he votes the
way he feels is in the best interest of the City.
Mayor Turville requested that protesters from the Council Chambers please allow the
Council Members to stated there opinions and discussions without interrupting them and
getting disruptive.
Council Member Wolfe stated Mr. Guthrie has a Masters Degree in urban planning; he
has a law degree and has served many communities as City Attorney and while he did not
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know him as well as Mr. Baird, his opinion was that the best selection for this City is Mr.
Guthrie.
Council Member Brown stated he had known Mr. Baird for a number of years, but had
not worked closely with Mr. Baird until he became a City Council Member. Mr. Brown
stated that he found Mr. Baird was easy to work with, was very cooperative and appears
to give the City the right answers. Council Member Brown stated that he had a problem
with the additional monies the City was going to have to pay for another attorney.
Council Member Brown stated that even if Mr. Baird stayed on and raised his salary,
considerably, Mr. Brown wondered if we could afford that and he would like someone to
explain if the City can pay Mr. Guthrie what he is asking for. Mr. Brown stated he
wondered whether the City was getting the "bang for the buck". Council Member Brown
stated he did not like being put on the spot and he wanted to know for sure that there was
no personal issues here. Mr. Brown stated he would like to hear once again why Mr.
Baird is now inadequate and is not good enough to be the City attorney and stated he
would like it said so that he can understand it.
Mayor Turville stated he was the only one who voted against the motion to go and seek
another attorney and the reason was because he knew what the City had and what it was
paying for and there was no doubt in his mind that while there is always someone out
there with a stronger resume in one form or another. The issue goes right to the money.
Mayor Turville stated the City can find attorneys, including Mr. Guthrie, who are
eminently qualified, however Mr. Guthrie's retainer, even if he does not work an
additional hour, is $30,000.00 a year. Mayor Turville stated we are looking at double the
cost without ever calling Mr. Guthrie once. He stated that is the reason he was not
interested in just shopping around as there was always talent but it always comes with a
price and he didn't believe the City had the kind of money to keep an "on board" expert.
Council Member Lamb stated this was obviously not her party tonight and she was
hesitant to say much because she felt for the last six months she had tried desperately to
have her say about not just this issue but about the growth issue that the City faces which
obviously has people lined up in different groups. Ms. Lamb stated that what scared her
the most was that the City decided to replace an entire Council and she went to a lot of
expense and time to make sure people knew where she stood on all the issues, and what
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became disheartening was facing nearly 8,000 homes that were being built that were
approved prior to this Council taking over. Council Member Lamb stated she looks out
and sees the citizens that feel strongly for Mr. Baird and like the Mayor she was bom and
raised in a small town and if it was one of her friends, she would probably feel the same
way these people do. Council Member Lamb stated that for someone new to try and fight
and do progressive things in this town is somewhat impossible. Ms. Lamb stated when
she looks out and sees Dick Langley, Ken Norquist, Hal Turville, George Hovis, Bobby
Pool and on and on and wonders why this City needs a Council. Ms. Lamb stated that if
these people had all the answers, why does the City need new blood and why was the old
Council changed to begin with. Council Member Lamb stated she wanted to look at a
new attorney because from a legal aspect there are some people who are saying the City is
going to be sued. Ms. Lamb stated almost everywhere she goes, whether the grocery
store and everyone else, people point and stated they hear the City is going to be sued.
Ms. Lamb said she has had lawyers point at her and say the City was going to be sued and
the City's ordinances are illegal and now some of these same lawyers are saying we've
got the best attorney. Ms. Lamb stated that she was confused on that. Council Member
Lamb stated she tried to go out there and find the best that the City could afford, a man
who has dropped his price, does not charge for travel time, and a man who most of the
people in the State of Florida stated that ifa City is headed for a major growth spurt with
legal issues popping up a day, this is the man who should be at your side. Council
Member Lamb stated further that she wants everyone to look progressively because we
have a lot of things ahead of us. Council Member Lamb stated she wanted the citizens to
know and wants Council Member Brown to know that she did this because she believes
in her heart that this is the right thing to do for Clermont and not because she did not like
Mr. Baird personally, although there have been times when he scared her to death.
Council Member Lamb stated she had her say and had her opportunity and that's what
she asked of the Council and they have done that. Ms. Lamb stated that everyone had had
their party and had their opportunity to have their say, so she was ready for this vote and
she'd live with it.
Mayor Turville called the Motion.
Council Member Biddle made a motion to retain Mr. Baird as
the Ci~ ,4ttorney, Mayor Turville seconded the motion and
q7-/73
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Page 21
the Motion was denied by roll call vote. (Council Members
Lamb, Wolfe and Brown against).
Mayor Turville stated the Council now needed to review the proposed rate structure from
Frank Kruppenbacher, P. A.
City Manager Saunders stated that he had forwarded to the Council the outline of the fee
Attorney Guthrie is willing to work for, which is $2,500 per month retainer and $115.00
per hour for any work done in addition to twenty two hours on a monthly basis. Mr.
Saunders stated Mr. Guthrie had called in the afternoon and apologized for not being able
to be present at the Council Meeting.
Mayor Turville stated since Mr. Baird is working on several things for the City, his
suggestion was to have an "effective date" for the change of attorneys.
City Manager Saunders stated that as a form of order, from the time of the vote, the City
does not have legal counsel, and his recommendation to Council was to hire legal counsel
as soon as possible.
A motion was made by Council Member Wolfe that the City
hire Frank Kruppenbacher, P.A., based on the proposed fee
schedule provided by that firm, for a period of six months at
which time a review will be heM, with the effective date
beginning at the earliest possible time a contract can be
brought before the Council Members for review and
approval, Council Member Lamb seconded the motion and
the motion was approved by roll call vote. (Council Members
Biddle and Turville against).
Mr. Baird then asked Mayor Turville if he could be excused.
City Manager Saunders stated he wanted to publicly thank Mr. Baird for all of the many
years of service.
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Hancock Road Recreation Area
City Manager Saunders stated that the Parks and Recreation Committee voted
unanimously to apply for a grant from the South Lake County Community Foundation for
a softball field at the Hancock Recreation Area. Mr. Saunders stated there was money in
this year's budget to begin the project and they have requested grant money from Lake
County and the State of Florida, and would like to request money for this field in the next
grant cycle from South Lake Community Foundation.
Council Member Biddle made a motion that the Ci~ a.~oly for
ct grant from the South Lake Communi~. Foundation for the
construction ora softball fieM at the Hancock Road
Recreation Area, Council Member Wolfe seconded, and the
motion was unanimous(v a.~vroved.
Florida League of Cities
City Manager Saunders stated that the City needs to designate one person to be our voting
delegate at the 73rd Annual Conference of the Florida League of Cities on August 19,
1999. Mr. Saunders explained that this delegate will be involved in decisions that will
determine the direction of the League in the upcoming year.
Council Member Wolfe made a motion: seconded by Council
Member Brown, and it was unanimously approved, that the
Ci~ 's current delegate to the Lake Coun~ Lea~tnte of Cities,
Hope Lamb. be designated as the Ci~, 's voting delegate at the
73rd Annual Conference of the Florida Leaeue of Cities.
Council Member Lamb stated that she had already submitted her application and paid her
fee although she is aware that the City will pay that fee.
Interlocal Agreement
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City Manager stated that for several years the City has entered into Inteflocal Agreements
with Lake County in order to be eligible for State grant funds to help with our recycling
program and in the past has received approximately $9,000.00 from this Grant Program.
Mr. Saunders stated the City is requesting approval of this year's Recycling Grant
Interlocal Agreement.
Council Member Wol~fe made a motion, Council Member
Lamb seconded and it was unanimous(v approved, that the
Ciw. enter into an Interlocal Agreement with Lake CounW. in
order to be el~ible for the State Recycling Grant.
Citizens' Comments
Dick Teagan of Kings Ridge stated that he takes real exception to being called a "crowd"
by Council Member Wolfe. Mr. Teagan stated that the people at the council meeting
were taxpayers and prefer to be called that and not a "crowd". Mr. Teagan stated that he
was disappointed to see this Council make decisions to spend a lot more money not based
on valid reasons.
Charlene Forth stated that the cars for sale in the lot across from the Dunkin' Donut on
Highway 50 looked bad and asked that the City do something to have their owners
remove them.
There being no further business or discussion, the meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
Attest:
~r. Mayor
Joseph E. ~