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10.26.2021 - City Council MinutesCity of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 CALL TO ORDER The City Council met in a regular meeting on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 in the Clermont City Council Chambers. Mayor Murry called the meeting to order at 6:30pm with the following Council Members present: Council Members Pines, Entsuah, Bates, and Purvis. Other City officials present were Acting City Manager Davidoff, City Attorney Mantzaris, and City Clerk Howe. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The invocation was given by Police Department Chaplin Michael Saxe followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. PROCLAMATIONS National American Indian Heritage Month Mayor Murry read into the record and presented Ms. Susan DeHart with a proclamation recognizing November 2021 as National American Indian Heritage Month. Ms. DeHart thanked the Council on behalf of the Daughters of the American Revolution and stated that the proclamation will be shared with their members. Statewide Mobility Week Mayor Murry recognized Statewide Mobility Week which will occur from October 29 — November 5, 2021. OPENING COMMENTS Prior to public comments, Acting City Manager Davidoff informed the Council that there were changes to the agenda. Item No. 8 — Ordinance No. 2021-024 FINAL — The VUE CPA AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT, LAKE COUNTY, FLORIDA, ADOPTING THE SMALL-SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR THE CITY OF CLERMONT, FLORIDA, PURSUANT TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING ACT, CHAPTER 163, PART II, FLORIDA STATUTES; SETTING FORTH THE AUTHORITY FOR ADOPTION OF THE SMALL-SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT; SETTING FORTH THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE SMALL-SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT; PROVIDING FOR THE ADOPTION OF THE SMALL-SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT; ESTABLISHING THE LEGAL STATUS OF THE SMALL-SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT, SEVERABILITY, ADMINISTRATIVE CORRECTION OF SCRIVENERS ERROR, PUBLICATION AND EFFECTIVE DATE. City Clerk Howe read the ordinance into the record by legal title only. MOTION TO TABLE the final consideration of Ordinance No. 2021-024 until the meeting of November 9 2021 made by Council Member Bates. Seconded by Council Member Purvis. Passed unanimously with all members present voicimp, aye. 1 City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 Item No. 9 — Ordinance No. 2021-025 FINAL — The VUE Rezonin AN ORDINANCE UNDER THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT, LAKE COUNTY, FLORIDA AMENDING THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT REFERRED TO IN CHAPTER 122 OF ORDINANCE NO. 289-C, CODE OF ORDINANCES; REZONING THE REAL PROPERTIES DESCRIBED HEREIN AS SHOWN BELOW; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT, SEVERABILITY, ADMINISTRATIVE CORRECTION OF SCRIVENERS ERROR, RECORDING, AN EFFECTIVE DATE AND PUBLICATION. City Clerk Howe read the ordinance into the record by legal title only. MOTION TO TABLE the final consideration of Ordinance No. 2021-025 until the meetilig of November 9 2021 made by Council Member Bates. Seconded by Council Member Purvis. Passed unanimously with all members present voicing aye. Acting City Manager Davidoff informed the Council that there were no additional changes to the agenda. PUBLIC COMMENTS Les Allier, 3436 Mossy Leaf Lane — Informed the Council that he will be hosting a toy drive at Corelli's downtown on December 4 despite being denied a permit from the City. Mr. Allier claimed the city code allows him to have this event. He is not asking permission, he is informing the Council. The event will start at 2:00 PM. Mayor Murry expressed concern with that date as the parade is that day. Acting City Manager Davidoff informed the Council that Parks and Recreation has been in touch with Corelli's. He also informed the Council that special events require a 60 days advance notice. He can follow- up with the applicant tomorrow. Mr. Allier informed the Council that the event will happen with or without their approval. Mayor Murry told Mr. Allier that he will need to get with staff and go over the details. Sharon Keys, 644 West Osceola Street — Representing South Lake Alliance. Asked the city to consider sole ownership of the project or partner with Lake County to bring the Champions Corner Community Center to fruition. Ms. Keys requested a January 2022 Workshop to continue the discussion. Dani Page, Tuscany Ridge — Spoke in support of Corelli's toy drive. Billie Wartenberg, 1000 Sadie Ridge Road — Requested that the City have a skate park. Council Member Purvis stated that a former Council brought up the idea of a skate park, but was afraid of the liability risk. City Attorney Mantzaris informed the Council that since that prior conversation, the State Legislature has provided for protective liability and there is some protection to reduce the city's liability risk. Council Member Purvis asked staff to review and report back to the Council in January. James Hobby, 1047 Princeton Drive — Spoke in support of a skate park. Mr. Hobby has a Change.org petition signed with 1,500 signatures in support of a skate park in the community. He reviewed the benefits of a skate park for the community. Andrew Wilkens, 15921 Bay Vista Drive, Clermont — Spoke in support of a skate park. Mr. Wilkens is a skate shop owner. 2 City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 Corbin Wartenberg, 1000 Sadie Ridge Road — Spoke in support of a skate park. He read some comments aloud from others wanting a skate park. Charlene Forth, 393 W. Desoto Street, Clermont — Spoke in support of a skate park; Spoke in opposition to the police department and stated that residents are not getting served properly and are losing faith in the Police Department. REPORTS Lake County Chairman Sean Parks Sean Parks, District 2 Representative — • Provided an update on Hancock Road. County staff have completed the analysis and evaluation. They have two (2) preferred options for widening Hancock Road. The first option costs $39 million; the second option costs $25.5 million. The first option requires additional purchases of land for expanded right of way and wider lanes; the second option utilizes existing right-of-way and has narrower right-of-way and lanes. This is a good thing because it has gone from a thought to an actionable plan. It all comes down to funding. • Provided an update on Lakeshore Drive. The County will be doing work on that stretch from the Lake Susan bridge to the city line. They will be adding roundabouts and splinters. The DOT will have more money available through the complete streets program. • CR455 is expediting a plan to implement safety bike lanes on both sides. • With regards to growth management, Mr. Parks is looking forward to working together with the municipalities to conduct regional planning. • Announced upcoming events in the County including the Commissioner Cup softball tournament. • The County is also observing mobility week. • Provided updates on Schofield Road and the Turnpike. • The CR455 Bridge will be closed for about a year while the bridge is reconstructed. Council Member Purvis asked if there is an opportunity to access additional funding for Hancock Road from the funds the County is seeking for Lakeshore Drive. Commissioner Parks stated that they are looking at any and all options for funding. Council Member Purvis informed the Council that he may request that the City jointly fund the construction of Hancock Road with the County sometime in the future. Council Member Entsuah asked about coverings at bus stops and who does the maintenance. Commissioner Parks stated that it is a partnership with the municipality. Council Member Entsuah asked about the East Central Florida Planning Council. Acting City Manager Davidoff stated that they would be making a presentation at the December meeting. INTERIM CITY MANAGER REPORT Acting City Manager Davidoff Congratulated Council Member Entsuah for his appointment to the Council on Community Service. Informed the Council that the City had applied for a grant with Niagara Bottling. As a finalist, the City had to do a publicity campaign and get votes in the community. Clermont ended up 1,200 votes short and came in 2°d place which is an amazing accomplishment. However, there were enough funds available that the foundation awarded the City a $90,000 grant to build a community garden at the ARC. There are plaques recognizing elected officials and former City Managers in the lobby. City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 • There will be a CRA meeting Nov. 9 at 6:OOpm with the regular meeting at 6:30pm. • Informed the Council that staff is bringing back a design for the parking garage. With regards to the parking garage, Assistant Public Works Director Jim Maiworm presented a PowerPoint presentation to the Council. Chris Raider, 4852 Lake Lilly Drive, Edgewood — City Consultant. Reviewed the options for the parking garage and the enhancement options available. The total estimated cost could be up to $15.950 million at this time for construction. Mr. Maiworm informed the Council that staff was seeking direction on the following options: 1. Accept the concepts and revisit at a future date. 2. Select a presented option and pursue. 3. Develop a funding plan for any option selected. 4. Hold off on development until funding is determined. Mayor Murry felt that it would be most appropriate to seek funding options before continuing with development. Council Member Purvis thanked staff for bringing this item back to the Council. He liked the first option and allows for future expansion. It is also the cheapest option. Mayor Murry stated he would like to see this on the January workshop agenda. In the interim, staff should work to identify funding sources. Council Member Purvis asked Finance to review the bond market and see what rates the City can borrow at. He would like that information presented at the January workshop. Council Member Bates asked if there were any realized value to having the solar panels installed. Mr. Raider said that he is aware of another project where the solar panels are being used to power an adjoining City Hall. Council Member Entsuah asked if there were grants available. Acting City Manager Davidoff stated that staff would be investigating all available funding options. CITY ATTORNEY REPORT City Attorney Mantzaris — No Report CITY COUNCIL REPORT Council Member Bates — • Congratulated Council Member Entsuah on his appointment. • Pig on the Pond was a success. • Thanked City Clerk's office for plaques in City Hall lobby. Council Member Purvis — • Did not attend Pig on the Pond, but received good reports and commended staff. Council Member Entsuah — No report. Council Member Pines — • Congratulated Council Member Entsuah on appointment to Community Service Board. 4 City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 Mayor Murry — • Congratulated Council Member Entsuah on his appointment. • Attended Pig on the Pond. It was an outstanding event and well attended. • Attended the Special Olympics 5K Torch Run with the Police Department at the National Training Center. • Reminded the public that Lunch with the Mayor in November will be at the Jeff's Coffee Shop. • Commented that the medians at US27 and SR50 looks horrible and asked if there were anything the City can do as those are county roads. • Roads are looking bad. In regards to the state of the roads, Acting City Manager Davidoff informed the Council that Public Services is working on getting that information. The agreements are tied into other cities as well. Staff will have to bring back. Council Member Purvis added that there are multiple street lights out on SR50 and US27. Acting City Manager Davidoff stated that staff will review the issue and report back to the Council. CONSENT AGENDA Mayor Murry advised the next item on the Agenda for consideration was the Consent Agenda and requested anyone wishing to have any item pulled for discussion to please come forward at this time. Item No. 1— Minutes Approval Item No. 2 — Surplus Request Item No. 3 — Resolution No. 2021-048R Item No. 4 — Piggyback Purchase and Budget Amendment Item No. 5 — Building Inspection and Plans Review Services Contract Award Item No. 6 — Pole Facility Use Agreement Item No. 7 — Solid Waste and Recycling Master Plan Study Task Order and Budget Amendment Consider approval of the September 28, 2021 Council meeting minutes. Consider approval to declare end of life inventory as surplus from the Police, Finance, and Parks & Recreation Departments and dispose of in accordance with the Purchasing Policy. Consider Fiscal Year 2021 Budget Amendment. Consider request to piggyback purchase from Lake County contract with Ten-8 to purchase a pumper apparatus in the total amount of $628,786 and a budget amendment in the amount of $3,786 in the Infrastructure Fund. Consider awarding term contract to nine (9) firms for commercial and residential building inspection and plans review services. Consider agreement between the City and the Clermont Downtown Partnership. Consider task order approval from Wright -Pierce, Inc. in the total amount of $166,550 and budget amendment for the same. A member of the public requested that Item No. 6 be pulled for further consideration. City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 MOTION TO APPROVE the consent agenda items 1 throu Th 5 and 7 for October 26 2021 made by Council Member Bates. Seconded by Council Member Purvis. Passed unanimously with all members present voicing ave. Mayor Murry opened the floor for comments from the public on Agenda Item 6 Dani Page, Tuscany Ridge, Clermont — Opposed the adoption of the agreement. Seeing no further comments, the floor was closed. Council Member Purvis asked if someone applies to put banners that are not a member of the Clermont Downtown Partnership (CDP) who they would apply to. City Attorney Mantzaris informed the Council that there are two (2) entities within this agreement: The City and the CDP. The City has ultimate control of the agreement and then can terminate at any time. The CDP will inform the City what banners they are seeking to put up, and the City will need to acquiesce to those banners. However, the City will not be involved in the banner selection process. Council Member Purvis stated he would like to see a sunset to the agreement. City Attorney Mantzaris stated that there is no sunset provision in the agreement as the city can terminate at its discretion. MOTION TO APPROVE the banner a eement with the Clermont Downtown Partnership with it coming back for review annually by the City Council made by Council Member Purvis: Seconded by Council Member Bates. Passed unanimously with all members present voicing ave. UNFINISHED BUSINESS Item No. 8 — Ordinance No. 2021-024 FINAL — The VUE CPA Item No. 8 was addressed earlier in the meeting and was tabled until November 9, 2021. Item No. 9 — Ordinance No. 2021-025 FINAL — The VUE Rezoning Item No. 9 was addressed earlier in the meeting and was tabled until November 9, 2021. Item No. 10 — Ordinance No. 2021-028 FINAL — International Property Maintenance Codes AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT, LAKE COUNTY, FLORIDA, AMENDING THE CODE OF ORDINANCES CHAPTER 14, "BUILDINGS AND BUILDING REGULATIONS", ARTICLE I, "IN GENERAL" BY CREATING SECTION 14-9 "INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE"; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT, SEVERABILITY, CODIFICATION, THE ADMINISTRATIVE CORRECTION OF SCRIVENERS ERROR, PUBLICATION AND AN EFFECTIVE DATE. City Clerk Howe read the ordinance into the record by legal title only. Development Services Director Curt Henschel provided the staff presentation. Director Henschel informed the Council that this is a staff initiated text amendment to the Clermont Codes, Chapter 14 - The International Property Maintenance Codes. 2 City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 The intent and purpose of the hnternational Property Maintenance Code is to protect public health, safety, morals and welfare by establishing minimum requirements governing the maintenance, appearance and condition of residential, rental, housing, commercial, business and industrial premises to establish minimum requirements for governing utilities and other physical components and conditions essential to make the previously mentioned facilities fit for occupancy and use. The adoption of the code requires all buildings to provide structural strength, stability, sanitation, adequate light, ventilation, and life safety conditions from fire, nuisances, and other hazards to conserve and maintain the viable stock to basic standards essential for occupancy. General and technical amendments to the Florida Building Codes may require text updates and changes to the International Property Maintenance Codes. The City's last update to the property maintenance code was adopted on May 26, 2009. The current amendment will provide compliance with the latest updates for the adoption of the 2021 International Property Maintenance Codes. Staff is recommending approval of Ordinance No. 2021-028. Mayor Murry opened the public hearing; seeing no one come forth, the floor was closed. MOTION TO APPROVE and adopt Ordinance No. 2021-028 made by Council Member Bates• seconded by Council Member Pines. Passed 5-0 on a roll call vote with all members pLesent voting Item No. 11— Ordinance No. 2021-030 FINAL — Prince Edward Ave Rezoning AN ORDINANCE UNDER THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT, LAKE COUNTY, FLORIDA AMENDING THE OFFICIAL ZONING MAP OF THE CITY OF CLERMONT REFERRED TO IN CHAPTER 122 OF ORDINANCE NO. 289-C, CODE OF ORDINANCES; REZONING THE REAL PROPERTIES DESCRIBED HEREIN AS SHOWN BELOW; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT, SEVERABILITY, ADMINISTRATIVE CORRECTION OF SCRIVENERS ERROR, PUBLICATION AND EFFECTIVE DATE. City Clerk Howe read the ordinance into the record by legal title only. Development Services Director Curt Henschel provided the staff presentation The applicant is requesting a rezoning from "R-1" - Single Family Medium Density Residential District to "R-2"- Medium Density Residential for a vacant parcel located on the corner of Prince Edward Avenue and East Minneola Avenue. The parcel is approximately 0.42 +/- acres with a Future Land Use Designation of Medium Density Residential. The applicant has requested the rezoning to R-2 Medium Density Residential to allow for a lot split, creating two (2) 75-foot wide lots for construction of two new single-family homes. The current lot dimensions are 150-foot width x 122-foot depth. The minimum development standards requirements for a single-family lot in the R-2 zoning district, Section 122-145, requires a lot width of 75-feet and a minimum lot area of 7,500 square feet. The adjacent parcel that is located to the north of the property is zoned R-2 Medium Density Residential. Because the surrounding parcels of land have been developed, this vacant parcel is considered as infill development. The Clermont Comprehensive Plan encourages and promotes infill development to increase the quality of life and property values in existing residential neighborhoods. Any future development of the lots will require compliance with the Land Development Regulations and building and fire safety codes before the issuance of a building permit. City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 The proposed R-2 Medium Density Residential zoning will be consistent and compatible with the existing residential neighborhoods. The rezoning request is not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan goals, objectives and policies for residential land use. Staff has reviewed the application and provisions of the land development codes to ensure compliance with the review criteria. Therefore, staff recommends approval of the rezoning request from "R-l" Single Family Medium Density Residential to "R-2" Medium Density Residential District. Mayor Murry asked if the applicant was present. Terry Pitt, 944 51 Street, Clermont — Applicant Representative. Mr. Pitt was present to speak on behalf of the applicant and is available for any questions. Mayor Murry opened the floor for comments from the public; seeing none, the floor was again closed. Mayor Murry expressed concern with the home size. Mr. Pitt responded that the driveway will not be close to the intersection and is in the interior of the two lots. MOTION TO APPROVE and adopt Ordinance No. 2021-030 rezoning the property made b Council Member Bates: Seconded by Council Member Pines. Passed 5-0 on a roll call vote with all members present voting ave. NEW BUSINESS Closed Session Mayor Murry read the following statement into the record: AT THIS TIME THE SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING WILL BE IN RECESS FOR THE COUNCIL TO CONDUCT A PRIVATE PENDING LITIGATION SESSION AS REQUESTED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY AND AS AUTHORIZED BY SECTION 286.011, FLORIDA STATUTES. THE SESSION IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING SETTLEMENT AND EXPENSE STRATEGY FOR PENDING LITIGATION INVOLVING THE CITY AND STEPHEN SPRINKLES AS WELL AS DISCUSSING SETTLEMENT AND EXPENSE STRATEGY FOR PENDING LITIGATION INVOLVING THE CITY, THE ART DISTRICT, LLC AND VP DEVELOPMENT, LLC. THE CITY COUNCIL, THE CITY MANAGER, THE CITY ATTORNEY, AND THE CITY' S LITIGATION LEGAL COUNSEL HANDLING EACH MATTER WILL ATTEND THE SESSION. A COURT REPORTER WILL BE PRESENT AT THE SESSION AND A TRANSCRIPT WILL BE AVAILABLE AFTER THE CONCLUSION OF THE LITIGATION. THE MEETING WILL LAST APPROXIMATELY 60 MINUTES AND THE SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING WILL RESUME THEREAFTER AT 9:04 P.M. FOLLOWED BY THE REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING. The Meeting Recessed at 8: 04pm AT THIS TIME THE REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING WAS IN RECESS SO THE COUNCIL COULD MEET IN A CLOSED LITIGATION SESSION. The Meeting Resumed at 9: 54pm E. City of Clermont MINUTES REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING October 26, 2021 ADJOURN: With no further comments, this meeting adjourned at 9:55 pm. APPROVED: i Tim Murry, Nhyor -Jat'c-�- Tracy Ackroyd Howe, City Clerk 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Page 1 CLOSED LITIGATION SESSION RE: VP DEVELOPMENT IN ATTENDANCE: TIMOTHY BATES, SEAT 1 JIM PURVIS, SEAT 2 EBO ENTSUAH, SEAT 4 MICHELE PINES, SEAT 5 TIM MURRY, MAYOR DANIEL F. MANTZARIS, CITY ATTORNEY SCOTT DAVIDOFF, ACTING CITY MANAGER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * DATE TAKEN: OCTOBER 26, 2021 13 TIME: 8:11 P.M. UNTIL 9:01 P.M. 14 LOCATION: CITY OF CLERMONT 15 685 W. MONTROSE STREET, 1ST FLOOR PLANNING CONFERENCE ROOM 16 CLERMONT, FLORIDA 34712 17 REPORTED BY: DIANE C. ROBERTS FLORIDA PROFESSIONAL REPORTER 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, thank you, everybody, for 4 being patient, as we get set up. 5 Again, this is one of the few times that the 6 City Council can meet in closed session regarding 7 the pending litigation and possible settlement and 8 litigation expense. 9 So, obviously, we want to talk about the two 10 items, today. We're going to do the two items 11 separately. The first item we're going to do is 12 the -- we'll talk about The Art District, VP 13 Development, City of Clermont case. Then, we'll 14 just take a real quick break, so that Diane, the 15 court reporter, can make sure that we're moving into 16 the second item. At that point, Mr. Neal will 17 probably -- he'll leave, because he won't be here to 18 talk about -- he's not involved in the Sprinkles 19 case. 20 So, you'll notice that Doug Noah is sitting 21 here. And Doug Noah is with Dean, Ringers, 22 Morgan & -- Lawton? Dean, Ringers, Morgan & 23 Lawton? 24 MR. NOAH: You got it exactly right. 25 MR. MANTZARIS: I got it right? Okay. And, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 Gz 5 6 ri 8 9 13 14 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 4 obviously, they have been the City's long-term insurance defense counsel through the League of Cities, Florida Municipal Investment Trust, insurance trust. So, he's here because of the recent amended Complaint that was filed again by VP Development -- the Second Amended Complaint that was filed by VP Development against the City of Clermont. As you know, prior to that, the City was involved in -- only involved in that matter by virtue of the Third -Party Complaint that had been filed by The Art District against the City. So, with that being said, what we'd like to do today is give you a little status and update on where we are with regard to the settlement discussions and then talk to you a little bit more about that -- that Second Amended Complaint and how that plays into it. Part of the reason why Doug is here now is because the -- there is some insurance coverage that's available through the -- through the League of Cities. We have not received a final coverage determination letter from the League as of yet. They've been looking at it for the last few days. We have talked to the claims representative, the claims adjuster. They have obviously assigned it to Dean, Ringers, and to Doug. So, they are 800-726-7007 Veritext Legal Solutions 305-376-8800 ow 2 3 �,U 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 5 providing -- at least, initially -- the coverage on the Defense side related to that Second Amended Complaint. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, just so that I'm clear, Dan, I think that we have, what, a $300,000 deductible, or whatever, for League of Cities. But, League of Cities still starts from day one, as far as Defense? MR. MANTZARIS: Well, there's -- we -- on this claim, based on the City's policy, we understand that there is a zero deductible for it. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Oh, okay. MR. MANTZARIS: But, there may -- there's an inverse condemnation count in here, and the City has an inverse condemnation endorsement or rider on its policy that has a $300,000 limit on it. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. Got it. MR. MANTZARIS: That, I believe has a $5,000 deductible on it. But, I'm not exactly sure about it. Nadine Ohlinger and I were trying to confirm that this afternoon. But, we believe -- I think the assignment that Doug has right now carries a zero deductible for the City. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. MR. MANTZARIS: So, what we want to do, again, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 6 1 is bring you up to speed on where we were last time. 2 So, this is the third closed litigation session 3 we've had on this. We started out, initially -- as 4 you all know, with regard to settlement 5 negotiations, the original demand that we received 6 from VP Development was $190,000. We -- the City -- 7 after that discussion, as you recall, the City 8 Council authorized us to go back and offer $125,000 9 back to the -- back to VP Development to try to get 10 the entire litigation resolved, to try to get the 11 Third -Party Complaint resolved and the potential 12 claims that VP Development had against the City. To 13 get all of that resolved, so that the City basically 14 could buy peace in all of this ongoing litigation. 15 We extended the $125,000 offer. We did not get 16 a response from that offer until yesterday -- late 17 yesterday afternoon, where we received a response 18 back saying that -- basically, rejecting the 19 $125,000 and demanding, again, $150,000 from the 20 City to resolve it. That was from VP Development, 21 to resolve all the issues. 22 When our office extended the $125,000 to the 23 attorney for VP Development, we extended it based 24 on the discussion we had at the last closed session. 25 It was offering $125,000, complete resolution of Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 7 1 the ongoing matters, a dismissal -- a dismissal with 2 prejudice of the pending lawsuit that VP Development 3 has against The Art District, which is what 4 resulted in the Third -Party Complaint, and also an 5 indemnification claim from VP Development back to 6 the City for anything that might come out of the 7 Art District litigation against the City. They -- 8 their response that we received last night was 9 $150,000, pretty much all those items, except no 10 indemnification back from -- from the City -- from 11 VP Development, back to the City, or related to 12 that. 13 So, that's where we are in the settlement 14 discussions on it. They basically rejected the 125 15 that we went back on. With that, I'd like Tom to 16 talk -- before we can have further discussion on it, 17 I'd like Tom to talk about the issues in the Second 18 Amended Complaint, the one that was presented to you 19 at the Council meeting. And, frankly, I apologize 20 for not giving it to you. I hadn't even seen it, at 21 that point. That Complaint was filed two weeks ago 22 at about 4:30 in the afternoon. So, when it was -- 23 when the citizen presented it to you, I hadn't even 24 seen it. I pulled it up that night on my computer, 25 off the clerk's website. So, we hadn't -- we hadn't Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 8 1 even seen it yet. But, we got it over to Tom and we 2 looked at it. 3 So -- and just -- I will speak for him. I know 4 you're going to be interested in knowing what Doug 5 says. But, give him a break. He basically knows 6 very little about this, at this point. He's a 7 brilliant guy and a great lawyer, but he's basically 8 been -- gosh, he just got involved in this probably 9 this morning, when him and I spoke a little bit 10 about it. 11 MR. NOAH: Right. 12 MR. MANTZARIS: So, I'll turn it over to Tom, 13 to talk about it. 14 MR. NEAL: Right. Just a couple points of i 15 clarification. When we sent the -- the offer, as 16 you -- or the counteroffer at the 125, with the 17 indemnification, we got no response except the 18 Motion for Leave to Amend. Now, the Motion for 19 Leave to Amend has not been granted, yet. They -- 20 it's a technicality, really. They filed a Motion 21 for Leave to Amend and they attached their Second 22 Amended Complaint. It's a sworn Complaint signed by 23 Mr. Bianchi, laying out allegations. The Court's 24 going to grant it, because they have the right. 25 It's -- it's something that they're going to get. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 9 1 But, they haven't officially had the order entered, 2 and so we don't have a responsive due date. 3 So, that was the response I got back, or we got 4 back. I e-mailed Mr. Van Voorhees, and I said, is 5 this our response, you're suing the City? And he 6 goes, well, my client hasn't authorized me to make 7 any monetary -- he didn't say it in those words, but 8 that my client hasn't authorized anything else. And 9 then, yesterday, we received the -- our Settlement 10 Agreement, revised, and they're asking for $150,000. 11 And as Mr. Mantzaris said, they removed the 12 indemnification that we had put in there, because we 13 wanted to put to bed all the litigation, so we 14 didn't pay the money to VP and still were left with 15 the litigation with regard to The Art District. 16 So, the Second Amended Complaint that is going 17 to be active against us soon, they've -- now, 18 "they," being VP, have sued -- or are going to sue 19 the City, in Count I, for declaratory relief action 20 against the City and against the Art District; 21 Count II, a claim for negligent misrepresentation 22 against the City; Count III, against the City for 23 equitable estoppel; Count IV, for inverse 24 condemnation; and Count V, for breach of a 25 third -party beneficiary contract. And they're Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 10 1 claiming that they -- they, VP -- are the 2 beneficiary of that temporary license use agreement. 3 That, somehow that gave them rights across that back 4 northern parcel. 5 They've -- they've changed their tact. They -- 6 now, instead of suing mainly The Art District, and 7 then The Art District suing us, now they're suing 8 the City. However, one basic aspect of the lawsuit 9 has remained and they're still making a claim that 10 they have a right to an easement across that north 11 parcel. 12 So, as soon as we got it, we looked at the case 13 law. We feel that the case law is very, very 14 favorable to the City, in this. And there's just 15 virtually no case that allows a party to win on an 16 allegation that someone on the City staff said, 17 we'll do "X" for you, or we'll do "Y" for you. 18 Because, the law is so clear that you cannot rely on 19 that, because you know that that person does not 20 have the ability to deliver that. Only the City 21 Council, with a proper vote, can deliver. 22 And, so, there are -- we pulled 10 cases that 23 are, we think, very close on point. And in many of �I 24 these cases, these type of allegations are thrown 25 out or dismissed on a Motion to Dismiss. That's Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 11 before you can even get to a Motion for Summary Judgment. So, we've started to put together a Motion to Dismiss that shoots down this -- and on a Motion to Dismiss, what the case law says is, you can only look within the four corners of the document. So, whatever allegations they've made, that's all the Court can look at. You can't bring in outside testimony or evidence and say, Judge, they can't win on this because we have this evidence. That's a Motion for Summary Judgment. But, the allegations they've made is that they relied on the site plan that was approved. And there's cases that say you can't do that, because the site plan doesn't give you those rights. And we've relied on representations made by members of the City. And the case law says you can't do that. Because, what you have to do is, you have to rely on good -- in good faith. And it's not good faith to say, Joe Smith told me this, when you know, and everybody knows, that Joe Smith has no authority to deliver that. Only the City, through its council, and a vote, can do it. So, we feel -- we feel stronger with the allegations they've made now, than the allegations they had before. Before, as you recall, they were Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 12 1 claiming that they had some easement across the 2 property that was granted to them by these 3 representations. And -- and they've changed that, 4 but we feel strong with the case law we have. 5 And, so, that's where we are on those 6 pleadings. And the next step -- depending on what 7 happens with the insurance coverage, the next step 8 would be to file a Motion to Dismiss. 9 MR. MANTZARIS: So, we wanted -- again, I think 10 the key point is, our job, as city attorney and 11 defense counsel, is to provide you with the legal 12 analysis related to that. We -- we feel confident, 13 as Tom pointed out, that the current allegations 14 that are being presented against the City are 15 strongly -- the facts and the case law is strongly 16 in favor of the City, from a legal perspective. And 17 that's our role, is to talk to you about that and to 18 provide that -- provide that to you. 19 Again, we are in settlement negotiations. 20 We've been in settlement negotiations from the 21 beginning. And the same issue concerns us about the 22 settlement negotiations as it has from the very 23 beginning, which is that we really were hoping -- we 24 wanted to work with the City Council, and with the 25 parties, so that the City could, as I said earlier, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 13 1 buy peace. We are not certain that, entering into a 2 resolution with -- we're pretty sure entering into a 3 resolution with VP Development, only, will not buy 4 the City peace in this litigation. Some litigation 5 will continue. We believe litigation will continue 6 in some way with regard to The Art District. 7 But, that's -- those are the legal discussions. 8 And we really -- I guess, at this point, we really 9 want to know how the Council wants to proceed. Our 10 recommendation is that we -- that we proceed with 11 the Motion to Dismiss that Tom is suggesting. That 12 will either be filed by our office or it be filed 13 by Doug's office, if they take over the defense of 14 that. We obviously would share all of the work 15 product we've done with Doug and his team. 16 But, that would be our recommendation on how to 17 proceed. We're here to talk to the Council, and 18 it's the Council's ultimate decision. 19 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, now we're going to 20 start to throw City staff under the bus, starting 21 with Darren Gray, who was one of the people who made 22 a promise. 23 COMMISSIONER BATES: How are we throwing 24 anybody under the bus? 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, Dan -- Dan just Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 14 1 said, in his opening comments, that there were 2 mistakes made. Right? 3 COMMISSIONER BATES: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And we all know, if you 5 read all the material -- in fact, I think you were 6 in that meeting, where Darren Gray made that 7 promise, we will get this done. Right? True? 8 COMMISSIONER BATES: That is true. 9 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. So, you know, we 10 can fight this 'til -- 'til you bury me in Oakhill 11 Cemetery. But, the question is, are we going to pay 12 now or are we going to pay later? Because, we're 13 either going to pay now or we're going to pay a ton 14 of money in legal fees and still roll the dice. I'd 15 rather go to a Hard Rock Cafe, if I'm going to start 16 tossing dice. I 17 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, just to be clear, we do 18 not -- we disagree with that, Mr. Purvis. We do not 19 think that the City, based on our reading of it, and 20 the current situation, that the City is going to -- 21 has a great deal of exposure for a substantial 22 amount of money to be paid to VP Development, based 23 on the allegations and the facts and the cases that 24 Tom referred to. 25 So, we do not think it's a, pay me now or pay Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 15 1 me a lot more later, with regard to VP Development. 2 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I asked the specific 3 question, I believe, of Tom, two meetings ago, what 4 was our potential legal expense exposure? And it 5 was a hefty number. I'm not going to speak for Tom. 6 Maybe he remembers what that number was. rA 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER PINES: But, you're asking for a -- we're considering asking for a Motion to Dismiss based on 10 cases that you've researched and found that it would be in the favor of the City. So -- MR. NEAL: Yeah, there's quite a few. Because, the case law is just -- it is so well established that you cannot rely on someone making a statement to you in good faith, that -- and what they're claiming is a negligent misrepresentation. So, a negligent misrepresentation simply means, well, someone said something and they said it negligently. They said they thought the City could deliver that, or maybe they thought it would happen and it didn't turn out that way. But, the case law is abundantly clear, as a property owner, you cannot rely on that, because everybody knows that the City is not bound by what a staff member says, a member of the Council. Until Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 16 1 it's voted on, it's not binding. And, so -- 2 COMMISSIONER PINES: I don't look at that as 3 throwing anybody under the bus. It's just legal 4 case law that states this. 5 MR. MANTZARIS: Well -- and I would just add 6 one more point, to follow up, Mr. Purvis. We did 7 talk to you about litigation expense. 8 MR. Purvis: Um -hum. 9 MR. MANTZARIS: However, the landscape has 10 changed considerably, recently. Because, Mr. Noah 11 is now here basically under the City's policy, so 12 the City is not paying for him to be here. So, the 13 litigation expense piece that was coming out of 14 pocket for the City has changed, based on the fact 15 that now there is insurance coverage that's 16 available for that. 17 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I had that same argument 18 with Wayne Weatherbee. Didn't work out too well in 19 the end. 20 MR. MANTZARIS: Well -- and, frankly, I'm not 21 sure how that -- how that's analogous to this. 22 Because, that was a long time ago. 23 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Here's the thing, Dan. 24 There's only five of us that have to sit up there 25 and explain to the taxpayers where the money went Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 1.1 6 7 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 17 and why. You could have all the legal reasons in the world and 10 cases to refer to. But, you're not the one that has to face the public. We are. And if we -- if we can't truly justify a fight in the gutter, why would we even go there? We have an opportunity to close the matter out. We've had that opportunity. We all sat here, I think, three meetings ago, and picked 150 as the magic number. We've got 150 on the table as the magic number. What is the dilemma, here? COMMISSIONER PINES: That's not closing out the matter, though. It's taking care of VP Enterprise, possibly. We don't have a guarantee of that. It's only taking care of one portion of it. And the reason why we even brought it up -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Tom, do you have the agreement from the last meeting, that I read? I don't know if anybody else -- MR. NEAL: Well, there's never been an agreement. There was an offer -- there's been offers and demands. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: There was a settlement offer. MR. NEAL: There's never been an agreement reached. But, there's been offers and counteroffers Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 FAN 5 6 7 8 9 RIPM 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 18 going back and forth. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I thought it said 150. It's the one that Tom pulled out of his folder and passed around. But, nobody picked it up, but me, to read it. MR. MANTZARIS: Yeah, that was the offer that we got from VP Development. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: All right. And it clearly said that it released the City of all responsibility, in my words. COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, that was my next question. If we agree to pay that 150, what are we getting for that 150? COMMISSIONER PINES: Well, the premise -- the original premise, when we countered, was that everything else within the original lawsuit from Art District would fall. Because, everything that we agreed with and paid VP for would take care of the entire matter. COMMISSIONER BATES: Correct. COMMISSIONER PINES: That's not what happened. In the last meeting, they explained to us that Art District came back stronger. So, it defeated the purpose of our counter. COMMISSIONER BATES: Our original. But, that's Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 19 1 my question. 2 COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah, of the 125. 3 COMMISSIONER BATES: If we paid that 150, what 4 are we basically stating and saying, at that point? 5 MR. NEAL: You mean, the 150 that's demanded 6 now? 7 COMMISSIONER BATES: Yes, sir. 8 MR. NEAL: Well, here's what they said. "Upon 9 receipt of payment, VP shall execute/deliver a 10 general release in favor of the City for all claims 11 related to this matter in the form attached hereto, 12 Exhibit A." They didn't attach it. 13 "Upon receipt of said payment, VP shall dismiss 14 with prejudice its Complaint in the litigation." I 15 guess he means Second Amended Complaint. I don't 16 think he read it very carefully before he sent it 17 out. 18 So, what -- what they're agreeing to do is 19 dismiss VP's claims against the City -- 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Um -hum. Okay. 21 MR. NEAL: -- and agreeing to give a release. 22 But, it doesn't contemplate getting rid of any 23 claims that The Art District has made against the 24 City. 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: But, he has no control Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 20 1 over The Art District. 2 MR. NEAL: Well, the only control he has is if 3 he agreed to indemnify us. And that's what we said. 4 If The Art District came after the City, give us 5 indemnification. And he took that out. That's the 6 difference, from what -- 7 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Would you agree to that, 8 if you were offered the same deal? I know I 9 wouldn't. 10 MR. NEAL: Well, I mean, I'd have to know -- 11 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I wouldn't. 12 MR. NEAL: That depends on -- I don't know. 13 That's a tough one to answer. 14 COMMISSIONER BATES: I'm inclined to agree with 15 that offer, on the premise that any litigation from 16 them is out the window. Just to put this to rest. 17 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: If The Art District wants 18 to make a move, we can't stop that. We'll just have 19 to deal with it when it happens. It's a separate 20 issue. 21 COMMISSIONER BATES: And I would anticipate I 22 something -- 23 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: It probably will. 24 Because, we all know the character of the person. 25 But, you know, I just don't think it's fair to join Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 21 the two of them at the hip. It's two separate issues. MAYOR MURRY: Are you looking at me? COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: You weren't the first to talk. So, I would like -- MAYOR MURRY: No, I'm listening. I'm not too in favor of just giving away taxpayer money. I mean, time and time again, I come in here to every one of these sessions and they're saying the City's got a strong case. And now, I'm hearing tonight it's even stronger. So, I have a harder time going back and saying, hey, we just gave this guy money, without any kind of fight, when we have a strong case, from what I'm hearing. I mean, that's what we pay you guys for, to give us legal advice. And I'm intending to listen to them, myself, and everything. I mean -- I hate just giving away something without a fight. Okay? COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I don't think we're giving anything away. MAYOR MURRY: That's what -- that's what -- that's what you're wanting me to say. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: We're negotiating something in good faith. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 22 1 MAYOR MURRY: Well, you're negotiating 2 something in good faith, which he has no right to 3 really claim. I mean, any person in business -- 4 Jim, I'm sorry. Any good business person would 5 know, you got to have things in writing, before 6 you -- you -- before you act upon it. And this guy 7 has been in business long enough to know that, word 8 of mouth isn't going to do it. 9 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: You're going to be amazed 10 at what he has in writing. 11 MAYOR MURRY: Yeah. Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: You're not going to be 13 happy when those cards get played. 14 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we would just -- Jim, we 15 would just -- 16 MR. NEAL: It's attached to the Complaint. 17 MR. MANTZARIS: We've attached the stuff to the 18 Complaint. There's been -- how many depositions 19 taken in this case? 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Multiple. 21 MR. NEAL: Fifteen, 16. 22 MR. MANTZARIS: Fifteen, 16 depositions. And 23 our reading of the evidence, and the facts that have 24 j been presented, hasn't -- hasn't changed our i 25 opinion. But, you're right, this is -- this -- Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 23 1 it's -- it's a City Council decision, about how they 2 want to handle it and how they want to do it. The 3 only thing that we can continuously say, is, 4 unfortunately, we do not think you can consider each 5 of these cases in a vacuum. We do think that they 6 are joined at the hip. And they are -- and we are 7 confident that The Art District litigation will 8 continue at some expense. And -- the only way -- 9 MR. NEAL: Well, their counsel has made that 10 clear. 11 MR. MANTZARIS: The only way -- the only way 12 that we could potentially resolve that, is if the 13 City were to make a similar offer to The Art 14 District, to pay them some funds for what they've 15 incurred, in their minds. 16 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And what was -- 17 COMMISSIONER PINES: And what was -- what was 18 their number? $450,000? 19 MR. MANTZARIS: No, it was less than that. 20 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: It was less than that. 21 I think it's around 100, wasn't it? 22 MR. MANTZARIS: Yeah. And they never made a 23 formal -- 24 COMMISSIONER PINES: The Art District? 25 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: Um -hum. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 2 3 GW 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 24 MR. NEAL: The 450 was for the building. COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: The building, yeah. COMMISSIONER PINES: Oh, okay. COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: And then, when I think about that, I'm, like, okay, 150 and 100. I'm like, I feel like that's already saved us an amount that we could have, you know, compared to the litigation. MAYOR MURRY: The way I feel is, if we go back and we give VP this 150, they're going to come back and hit us with even more. Okay? COMMISSIONER PURVIS: No, they can't. MAYOR MURRY: Because, isn't it -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Once we cut them the 150 check -- MAYOR MURRY: Not VP, I'm talking about The Art District. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, you said VP. MAYOR MURRY: Well, if we give VP this, I'm thinking The Art District is sitting there waiting to see if we're just going to hand VP money. And if that's the case, then we're going to go out here and we're going to ask you for a whole ton of money, as well. But, I'm going to need -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: That's a separate case. MAYOR MURRY: I don't care -- I don't know how Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 25 1 we were trying to tie both of them at the hip, 2 anyway. Because, they're both separate, and we have 3 to deal with them one-on-one. Okay? 4 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I agree. 5 MAYOR MURRY: I'm sorry. I hear what Council 6 is saying about -- about the evidence. And I 7 just -- I'm sorry, I'm willing to put up a fight. 8 However, I'm just one vote. And, so -- 9 MR. NEAL: The legal theory is, if you can win 10 on the Motion to Dismiss, that it all may go away. 11 MAYOR MURRY: Right. 12 MR. NEAL: Because, once VP's claim is found 13 not to be a good claim against the City, then The 14 Art District doesn't have much reason to come after 15 us. Because, most of their claims are based on what 16 VP has claimed against them. 17 MAYOR MURRY: And if we turn around and we hand 18 VP all this money, I'm quite sure The Art District 19 is going to say, we're going to want ours. 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: You don't think he isn't 21 going to do it, anyway? I mean, consider the 22 person. I mean, really. 23 MAYOR MURRY: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Yeah. All I can say is, 25 I never came home from the casino with more money Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 26 1 than I went with. Never. I'm not much of a 2 gambler, but I never came home with more money. I 3 try not to spend more money than I know I have. 4 MAYOR MURRY: I'm sorry, I know you walked away 5 with some of that money. 6 MR. MANTZARIS: And since we are focused on 7 litigation expense, I have to tell you that, based 8 on the current -- the current status of this matter, 9 it is likely that the City is not going to absorb 10 any more -- the City is not going to absorb any more 11 litigation expense associated with this case. Not a 12 lot. And today -- 13 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And if he should 14 prevail -- if -- big if -- if he should prevail, 15 does he not then have the right to collect his legal 16 fees, in addition to the sum of it? I think he 17 does. 18 MR. MANTZARIS: I'm not -- 19 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, that's adds another 20 set of dice to the -- to the table. 21 MR. MANTZARIS: Possibly on the inverse 22 condemnation claim. 23 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I don't know. 24 MR. MANTZARIS: But, other than that, I don't 25 think he the right to -- Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 27 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I mean, it's not just the 150, that we're looking at. We're looking at the potential of a lot more money, if, God forbid, we lose. And there's a 50/50 chance that we will. MAYOR MURRY: Well, if there's a 50/50 chance that we lose, there's a 50/50 chance that we win. What if we win? What about our legal fees? Do they pick up our legal fees? MR. MANTZARIS: No, it doesn't work that way. Unfortunately. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: It doesn't work that way. MAYOR MURRY: But, I'm willing -- rather than just handing the guy money, when I'm hearing legal advice telling us we got a strong case and everything -- MR. NEAL: Well, the way these cases usually work, is, you put -- you test their case. You hold their feet to the fire. You make them get past the Motion to Dismiss. If they don't get past the Motion to Dismiss, boy, then, they're -- they're really in a bad spot. If they get past the Motion to Dismiss, now their case may be a little stronger. Then, if they get past the Motion for Summary Judgment. Usually, you -- you test their theories. At this point, they're making allegations. And Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 28 1 we're telling you, we don't think these allegations 2 hold water, legally. And, usually, at that point, 3 money isn't offered. It's, like, let's test these 4 allegations and see what the Court says. That's the 5 way it usually happens in litigation. It usually 6 doesn't -- you usually don't agree to settle with 7 them so early on in the case, when their legal 8 theories haven't been tested. And that's why we've 9 said, we've done the research and we feel like you 10 have a strong position. Hold their feet to the 11 fire. Make them -- you know, show us that they have 12 a viable claim where we could potentially lose. 13 MAYOR MURRY: So, with that being said, if we 14 submit the Motion to Dismiss and if they get past 15 that, we could probably come back at that point, if 16 necessary. 17 MR. NEAL: Oh, you can settle at any time. 18 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: But, maybe not at 150. 19 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: Yeah, that number is not 20 going to be 150. Now, it's going be -- 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Of course, not. 22 MR. MANTZARIS: But -- but, I don't know about 23 that. Because, remember this, there is a finite 24 amount of arguable damages in this case. Which, 25 i we've never had substantial -- Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 29 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Correct. MR. MANTZARIS: They -- their damages in their demand letter -- in their latest demand, is based on loss of rents, right? They've had occupancy rights to that building for a long time. They currently have a full certificate of occupancy to use that building. So, in terms of the damages clock, the damages clock has stopped ticking, because they have access to it. So, really, the damages can't get any more than they are now. They're going to argue that we have a half -a -million -dollars worth of damages and we're willing to settle for $150,000. And that comes down to an issue about whether that's -- whether that's speculative or whether those are actually firm damages that a Court would also decide if we ever got to that point. So, I can't say for sure that, if you were to -- if you -- if the City was not successful in its Motion to Dismiss, I'm not sure -- we can't say for sure that you would have a larger demand than $150,000. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I can see that. I think -- I think the clock has stopped, you know? I agree with that. MR. MANTZARIS: Yeah. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 30 1 COMMISSIONER PINES: I don't -- 2 MAYOR MURRY: And if there is 150, 195, we all 3 were sitting here in the first meeting trying to 4 figure out where he come up with the figures. How 5 he come up with it. And we asked for some 6 specifics, if he came back in and did not accept the 7 125. We haven't gotten those, yet. 8 MR. NEAL: We asked for it, and we got nothing, 9 substantiating it. 10 COMMISSIONER PINES: It's not going to hurt 11 anything for the Motion to Dismiss. To go for that. 12 It's not going to hurt, at all. 13 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: You know, if I was a 14 potential business person coming into Clermont, and 15 I knew some of the things that we all know about 16 this particular case, I would get in my car and 17 speed as fast as I could out of the City limits. I 18 wouldn't -- 19 COMMISSIONER PINES: Everybody has a right to 20 do that. 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I would not deal with -- 22 with -- with this. Because, it's so duplicitous. 23 The -- 24 MAYOR MURRY: Well, you're right. And 25 hopefully we will make sure this doesn't happen Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 31 1 again. That's what we're trying to prevent. Make 2 sure we don't have these kind of things happening. 3 COMMISSIONER PINES: That's exactly right. 4 COMMISSIONER BATES: If I felt like we were 5 totally not at fault, didn't do anything wrong, I 6 would tend to agree. But, I think we had a hand in 7 the issues -- 8 COMMISSIONER PINES: But, we were just -- 9 COMMISSIONER BATES: -- with this. 10 COMMISSIONER PINES: We -- 11 COMMISSIONER BATES: And I just -- I don't feel 12 right not helping them out with something. 13 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: There's a moral aspect 14 to this. I know the Courts don't recognize moral, 15 yada, yada, yada. But, the reality of life is, 16 everybody at this table, I suspect, has a moral 17 compass. And, boy, that compass is spinning, right 18 now, big time. It doesn't bode well for the City, 19 let alone the perception. 20 COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, what do you want to 21 do? 22 COMMISSIONER PINES: There have been a lot of 23 things done on both sides. 24 COMMISSIONER BATES: Absolutely. There is 25 fault across the board. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Nl 2 3 D! 5 6 7 8 9 12 13 14 15 I 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 32 COMMISSIONER PINES: This City has tried -- for, what, a year and a half, our staff has spent hundreds of hours working on this, trying to get this resolved. And they have not been able to resolve anything with either one of them, and that's why we are here. It's not just one thing, or one thing that was said, that was promised in a meeting, or anything else. It's -- it's been -- COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, what I do know, is that one of these two parties has come to the table to try to work something out, multiple times. Whereas, the other one had no interest, whatsoever. It wasn't a lack of effort. I mean, it just wasn't reciprocated on the other end. COMMISSIONER PINES: But, mistakes were made. I understand that. But, mistakes were made -- even with the promise that he would have the easement rights, mistakes were made along the way, as well, in that regard. COMMISSIONER BATES: Absolutely. COMMISSIONER PINES: So, we can't be held accountable for a mistake that somebody made that created easement issues. MR. NEAL: And there are -- there are statements in the minutes, and so forth, that cut Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 I 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 33 both ways. Because, what -- what VP attached to their Second Amended Complaint, they attached minutes from the November 13th, 2018, meeting. And Mr. Bianchi was present. And the statement was made on the record that -- first, there was a statement about no impeded access to business owners, such as the Animal League, their proposed sidewalk. And then, the statement is made, there is an issue of encroachment between an adjoining property owner, Mr. Stringfield. The two parties have been in dialog for potential access and easements. So, at that time, in November, he knew -- he, Mr. Bianchi, knew that he had a problem with easement access. And for him to come in and say, it was promised to me, when he was at a meeting and participated in the discussion of the property being sold. So, it looks like what happened is, he thought he was going to be able to work it out after the fact, after the property was sold. And then, for whatever reason, these two people started fighting, and now the answer is to blame the City. Further, Mr. Bianchi, at that meeting, stated, a utility easement was granted for the new wine bar. He inquired if the easement will still be in place. So, he knew about utility easements and so forth. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 34 1 City Attorney Mantzaris replied, the property will 2 be sold, subject to all existing easements. And 3 there was no easement for him to access across it 4 when it was sold. 5 So, he knew, back in November. And in these 6 minutes, what he said really hurt his own case, what 7 he attached to his Complaint. And -- and, so, what 8 they attached to the Complaint is part of the 9 Complaint for all purposes on a Motion to Dismiss. 10 So, when he makes the allegation that he relied 11 on these things, the Court can read this and say, 12 well, wait a minute, this man went to the meeting, 13 knew there were issues, knew he had to negotiate for 14 access across the property, and now he's saying the 15 City negligently told him he had it. He knew he had 16 a problem. 17 So, that's why we feel really -- part of the 18 reason we feel strongly about this Motion to Dismiss 19 is that there's good stuff to work with, put it that 20 way. There's good legal stuff to work with. 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, how do we deal with 22 the fact that, right until today, tonight, the City 23 has a formal written agreement with The Art District 24 that there would be a sidewalk, yada, yada, yada, in 25 our agreement with The Art District. And to this Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 35 day, the City has still not done anything for the sidewalk that's in our agreement with The Art District. I mean, guys, this is -- we're going to be the laughing stock of the State Supreme Court. COMMISSIONER BATES: What settlement are you talking about? You lost me, there. MR. MANTZARIS: Yeah. I don't know what -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: The Cost Share Agreement between us and The Art District. COMMISSIONER BATES: Where does that all come in? I don't -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Parallel to Montrose Street, in the back. MR. MANTZARIS: Well, that was a Temporary Access Agreement. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: No, it's still -- it still shows as being installed on our agreement with Jayson. And the City has never enforced it. And now, the City sold the land to Jayson, so the City has no control over that five feet. MAYOR MURRY: Well, that's what I was going to say. Is that the five feet that both of them was supposed to be giving up -- VP was supposed to be giving up and The Art District was supposed to be Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 36 1 giving up for that sidewalk, which neither one of 2 them ended up giving up, so that's why you don't 3 have your sidewalk? 4 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, that was part and parcel. 5 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: But, we're in violation 6 of our own agreement with The Art District. 7 MAYOR MURRY: Well -- we -- we -- 8 MR. NEAL: Is that the temporary access 9 agreement? 10 MR. MANTZARIS: No, he's talking about the Cost 11 Share Agreement. And You may be right, Mr. Purvis. 12 I don't remember that specifically. But, we can 13 certainly look at that. 14 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I've done a lot of 15 reading. Probably more than I ever wanted to. I 16 think we just need to fish and cut bait, tonight. 17 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we can't make -- 18 unfortunately, you can't make a decision -- 19 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: We can have a consensus. 20 MR. MANTZARIS: That's what we're looking at. 21 And we'll move forward, based on how you want to do 22 it. 23 MAYOR MURRY: I still stand on submitting the 24 Motion to Dismiss, myself, is where I stand. 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, we haven't heard Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 37 from Doug, who patiently has sat there sucking all this up. I really would like to hear any viewpoint that you might have, Doug. MR. NOAH: I'm not sure I've really formulated any views on this case. I don't know enough, having been introduced to it today, to know anything. I will tell you that the -- the results of the -- I don't know the cases that Tom has cited for you. But, those results are completely consistent with what I'm aware of. So, I can, for example, forward you a case where a city manager tells somebody, I'm hiring you, that had no authority in -- in this particular town's ordinances, to be able to do that, because hiring decisions were made by the commission. And when that happened, the commission terminated him, and there was no breach of contract there. Now, you raised, the two of you -- and I'm sensitive to the fact, and it's an important argument -- the morality. You don't want to lose sight of morality, and things like that. But, there's an important public purpose to be served, there. And the public purpose is that cities tell the public how they're going to transact business. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 ill 8 9 owe] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 38 They anticipate that their public is going to be familiar with those rules and they're going to comply with them. And, so, if they don't comply with them, then they -- they do that at their own risk. So, there are public policy reasons that -- that underlie these cases. It's not like an, I gotcha, there's no morality in our system. I mean, almost every time you have two interests, each person has legitimate interests, and this is one of the interests that the City has. So, that's -- that's about all I can add. That's all I can add. MR. MANTZARIS: Well, the one element I will say -- and maybe Doug can help with this, because he obviously deals with the League much more than me -- the one -- I'm certainly -- I do not know how the recent involvement of Doug's firm and the League is going to play out in this situation. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I understand. MR. MANTZARIS: I don't know. Unfortunately, I was hoping -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I spent 30 years in the business, and I don't understand it. MR. MANTZARIS: And I was hoping to get -- I Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 39 1 don't know what it pays. Obviously, as an insurance 2 carrier, they will tell you, you're the insured, and 3 you have a right to settle any claim you want, based 4 on however you want to do that. That's pretty 5 typical. As long as you're not spending our money, 6 you have a right to do that. How that all plays 7 out, though, with regard to any other potential 8 litigation involving another party and whether that 9 harms the insurance company's interests with regard i 10 to the future defense of any other particular 11 matter, I can't answer the question for you. In 12 other words, if you settle with VP Development, and 13 that raises further litigation with The Art 14 District, does that jeopardize any coverage you 15 potentially have without running it by the League, 16 at least, initially? 17 So, I would suggest, if we do move forward 18 tonight, and that's at the direction of the City, we 19 would try to vet those out before we bring this back 20 for a final -- you know, for any final action, to 21 make sure the City is in agreement with it. 22 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: All I want to see is a 23 full and final release of the City's future 24 exposure. It's my words, not well constructed. 25 MR. MANTZARIS: The other option -- to go back Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 40 1 to my buy the peace issue, is to decide whether the 2 City Council wants to give us direction to reach out 3 to The Art District and see if there's a resolution 4 point with them that City would be willing to agree 5 to. 6 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: I would like to hear 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: But, again, we all know 9 that you can't predict what tomorrow is going to 10 bring, with this man. He'll tell you anything today 11 and do a 180 on you tomorrow. You know? So, that's 12 why I want to keep these two separate. Because, if 13 we start to join them, we're never going to do 14 anything but keep going in a circle. Because, 15 that's exactly his game plan. 16 MAYOR MURRY: Well, I don't think we can join 17 them, first of all. I don't think they can be 18 joined. And, you're right, he may say one thing 19 today and something else tomorrow. We're doing the 20 same thing with VP. One thing today and tomorrow is 21 something different. So, that's the chance you're 22 going to take with either one of them. 23 But, like I said, I'd still rather sit here and 24 say, let's file a Motion to Dismiss and everything 25 and see where it goes from there. If we have to Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 41 1 come back again and say, hey, go ahead and pay it, 2 that's good. But, I want to put up some type of 3 fight, first, rather than just going out and handing 4 people money, without even exploring all our 5 options. 6 COMMISSIONER PINES: I'm with the mayor. 7 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I am not. I guess we're 8 starting to get to the consensus. 9 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we're just trying to get 10 to a consensus. It's important that you not do 11 that. I mean, I can -- I'll -- just to keep it from 12 having any issues, I can read the table. It looks 13 like there's a consensus to bring this back to the 14 City Council for a final approval at a public 15 hearing, at the $150,000 with a full release from 16 VP Development. 17 COMMISSIONER PINES: Um -um. No. 18 COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, I don't know. Is 19 there a -- 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I mean -- 21 COMMISSIONER PINES: Let's hear from all five. 22 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: -- I was going to look at 23 the two of you and say, is that right? But, it's 24 one of those things. 25 MR. MANTZARIS: I'm sorry. I apologize. I Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 42 thought, earlier on in the discussions -- COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: It's one of those things where, like, I wish I could kind of see where that next step is. Because, you know, if we could file that Motion to Dismiss and I knew 100 percent it was all going to go away, I would be jumping on board with it. But, just the fact that there is the possibility that a judge says, no, you know? The City wronged Patrick, you know? And -- COMMISSIONER PINES: Well, that's one step. MR. NEAL: Well, let me -- let me clarify something, there. Because, on a Motion to Dismiss, we can't lose, we can only win. Because, if we don't win on the Motion to Dismiss, all we have to do then is respond to the Complaint. This is a situation where we file the motion. If we win, the case it's over, other than a potential appeal. If we don't win -- we doesn't lose, we don't win -- then, the case goes to the next step. So, we don't lose at a Motion to Dismiss, we just don't win. COMMISSIONER PINES: Or we could determine, at that point, that we want to negotiate. Because, this is just -- this is, no harm, no foul. It's not going to hurt us. MAYOR MURRY: Yeah. And what I'm hearing, I Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 43 1 guess, from Mr. Mantzaris, at this point, I don't 2 see it going no higher than $150,000. Because, they 3 say everything is pretty much -- 4 MR. MANTZARIS: Well -- 5 MAYOR MURRY: And I'm still trying to figure 6 out where he come up with the figure for the 7 $150,000. 8 MR. NEAL: Well, we haven't seen that. We've 9 asked for it. We've seen no breakdown to that 150, 10 that he just plucked from air. 11 COMMISSIONER BATES: That's discouraging to 12 hear, too. I thought that that was provided, but 13 obviously not. 14 MR. NEAL: We -- I mean, I haven't seen any -- 15 any sort of backup for that. 16 MAYOR MURRY: Well, we asked for them. But, I 17 think you -all haven't provided them to us yet, on 18 the specifics of where you're coming up with that 19 kind of money. So -- 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, where did we come 21 up with the $100,000, or whatever it was? 22 MR. MANTZARIS: 125. 23 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: 125? 24 MAYOR MURRY: Well, because he came to us with 25 $195,000, and we said, no. So, we -- we negotiated Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 44 1 it, to say 125. 2 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, why didn't we come 3 back with $30,000? 4 MAYOR MURRY: Well, we said 100 -- well, I 5 wanted to say 50, myself. But, anyway -- 6 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, you wanted to be 7 cheap, too. 8 MAYOR MURRY: Well, that's true. I've always 9 tried to save the City as much money as possible. 10 But, anyway, we said the 125. And then we say, if 11 he don't accept the 125 and want to go higher, we 12 wanted specifics on where you're coming up with this 13 figure. And he hasn't provided those. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, my recollection is 15 this. 16 MAYOR MURRY: And according to Mr. Mantzaris, 17 if we do lose the Motion to Dismiss, and everything, 18 and we have to go further, I don't see it going much 19 more than $150,000. Because, I think he's still 20 going to have to prove, somewhere in the course, 21 where the damages are. 22 COMMISSIONER BATES: I would definitely like to 23 see those numbers. 24 MAYOR MURRY: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: My recollection was, we Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 45 1 said it would be nice to be provided those numbers. 2 But, we never said that that was a line in the sand, 3 to move forward. 4 COMMISSIONER BATES: But, I'd still like to see 5 them. 6 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, I would, too. But, 7 you know, you never see the real dealer's invoice on 8 a car, either. So -- but, I don't know of one 9 attorney -- defense attorney -- that has ever said 10 to their client, tell your wife you'll be home for 11 dinner tonight. Because, you just don't know what 12 the judge is going to do. And that's the wild card. 13 Is that true, Doug? 14 MR. NOAH: Yeah. 15 MR. NEAL: Well, I mean, that's true if we're 16 talking about a trial, and one side is going to win 17 and one side is going to lose. 18 On a Motion to Dismiss -- let me be clear, 19 again -- if the judge says, no, on the Motion to 20 Dismiss, we haven't lost anything. We -- we could 21 file a responsive pleading to this, today, admit, 22 deny, admit, deny, affirmative defenses. If we file 23 a Motion to Dismiss, if the judge reads these cases 24 like we do, she could -- he or she could throw the 25 case out and we could win. The judge may say, no, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 0088-9L£-90£ LOOL-9ZL-008 suoilnios P80q 1x01i.13n oq uozgow P GXPW 'APxo '@NTT Taal I 'quzod szuq SZ qP 'uPaw I 'ssan6 I : HWISINS ESNOISSINNOO 7vZ •sagpg •jw Puy' EZ oqg oq do s,qT ssan6 I Lam aap aj aqm 'snsuasuoo ails ZZ L am aaP aJGgm - - qP NOOT T T , I 'OS = 7Mf1W-dO7,VN T Z •uozuido aT@Tgq passaadxa spq ApogAjana NUTgq I OZ 'Moue{ noA 'upaw I : SIAHfld ESNOISSINHOO 6T •mou ggBTa 'auo gpuq gnogp NTPq IOU 8T s , IaT PUP aOAPJ P aw oQ • uPa7, : SIHVZZNVW • xw LT •mouawos 'sTgq apnTouoo s,gaT 9T 'oS •6uzu3uaam gaPau -- :SlAEfld HENOISSIMOO ST • aaauq 06 IOU s , qaq : SSZKS ERNOISSIwwOO rvT - - a.zow uana ET aq oq buzob sz ssnoszp oq buzob aa,am aspo puooas ZT auq gpuq goadsns I ' TTaM : SIAEfld ERNOISSIWWOO TT • wnu-wn : 2�xxnw E071vw OT 'TTam sP 'quzod gpuq qP 'noA anPu gPuM PUP 6 'sgdiaoaa asouq aog wagq Nsp pup Nopq pup 06 sApmTp g pTnoo aM • asuas saXpw qI : SSIVE USNOISSINNO0 L •asuagaa auq uo @a,noA uagm 9 sszwsTa oq uozgow P uo suaddpq gpum 'aw oq 's,gpgl S PaPMaoj arrow pTnoo am jo ulM pTnoo am 's , qt ' asoT t aO uzm 'IOU s,qT 'sz IT qP XOOT I APm auq 'OS E •6uzPPaTd anzsuodsaa anOA aTTJ Z PUP PP@gP 06 'IT op oq buzob IOU w,I 'quzod sTgq qP T 9t a6pd ow 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 i 17 18 19 20 Page 47 Dismiss. But -- and this is for the record -- don't be surprised when he comes back and he's going to ask for more, okay? If -- if it does not go through. MR. MANTZARIS: All right. Well, that's what we understand and that's basically the consensus. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, you're going to support filing a Motion, rather than put an end to this agony? COMMISSIONER PINES: A Motion to Dismiss is not going to hurt. COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: I hate that -- I hate when it sounds like that. MAYOR MURRY: It's not going to hurt. But, I'm just -- I'm sorry, it's hard for me to just say, okay, I'm going to give away money, without -- without some type of fight. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: We are not giving away money. We have earned a good slap on the wrist on this one. 21 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, if I could -- 22 MAYOR MURRY: Well -- 23 MR. MANTZARIS: If I could, just -- obviously, 24 we've been looking -- Tom, and our office, have been 25 looking at all this. What we do have now is an Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 48 1 ability for, you know, another lawyer to come in and 2 take a look at it. I'm not going to put Doug on the 3 spot, because he hasn't seen anything. But, I mean, 4 we certainly could move forward with that. And 5 after Doug and his team has an opportunity to look 6 at it, if they feel like there's something that 7 needs to be changed in the course of conduct, 8 they're certainly going to tell us that. And 9 they're going to be frank, because they have the 10 City's best interest at heart, the same as we do. 11 So, with that caveat, we could move forward 12 with it, if Doug has an opportunity to get a second 13 set of legal eyes on it, and see if there's 14 something that -- that we may have missed or we may 15 feel that we may be too confident on. 16 COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, it sounds like you 17 got a consensus to move forward with -- i 18 COMMISSIONER PINES: The Motion. 19 MR. MANTZARIS: And then, we'll circle back. 20 And you'll trust us to know that, if we feel like 21 there's going to be an issue with it, that we're 22 going to do it to the best interest of the City and 23 bring it back to you and -- and have some more 24 discussion on it. 25 COMMISSIONER PINES: Okay. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 49 1 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Ebo, where's your head? 2 I'm just curious, myself. 3 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: Yeah. No, I mean, I 4 hate it. I hate this all. I'm being honest. 5 Because, I think he deserves -- he deserves some 6 type of recuperation, you know? But, at the same 7 time, like you said, we do have to deal with what is 8 in -- I hate using that phrase -- what is in the 9 best interest of the City. Because, it makes it 10 seem selfish. But -- yeah, go ahead. Yeah, go 11 ahead and do it. 12 MAYOR MURRY: Let me say this. You hate using, 13 "the best interest of the City." But that's what 14 we were elected to do, what's in the best interest 15 of the City. And, to me, it does not seem selfish. 16 Because, if we start just handing out money, 17 like this, here, anyone can come up and start filing 18 claims on a, "he say/she say," or something. And 19 then, the next thing you know, we're handing out 20 more money. For what? You got to put a fight up, 21 first, and let them know that there is not no open 22 bank and we're just not out there giving away money, 23 City money. Okay? No. 24 I mean, I truly feel that's why The Art 25 District haven't did anything, yet. Because, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 50 1 they're trying to see if we're just going to give VP 2 this money. And, if so, I think we'll be in a 3 bigger fight with The Art District. If we don't 4 cave to VP, and everything, The Art District, I 5 don't think they're going to come in asking for too 6 much more. They're going to keep it more realistic. 7 MR. MANTZARIS: All right. Well, to keep us on 8 schedule -- because, there's not much time for -- I 9 think we've got enough direction to move forward 10 with that. So, we'll just hang up on this one with 11 Tom and we'll go to the Sprinkles matter. 12 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Can we just put on the 13 record what the consensus was? 14 MR. MANTZARIS: Yeah. Well, the consensus, as 15 I understand the direction, was to move forward with 16 the filing of the Motion to Dismiss. And then -- 17 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: With a consensus of 4 to 18 1? 19 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we can't do that. 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Let's hang up on this 21 one. 22 MR. MANTZARIS: We're done, on this one. Thank 23 you, Tom. 24 MR. NEAL: Thank you. Good seeing everyone, 25 again. L_ Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 Mi 2 (The t: 3 Sprink: 4 (The c: 0 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 52 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 4 COUNTY OF ORANGE ) 5 6 I, Diane C. Roberts, Notary Public, State of 7 Florida, was authorized to and did stenographically 8 report the foregoing proceedings, and that the 9 transcript, Pages 3 through 51, is a true and accurate 10 record of my stenographic notes. 11 12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, or 13 employee, or attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, 14 nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' 15 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I 16 financially interested in the action. 17 Dated this loth day of November 2021. 18 19 20 21 Diane C. Roberts, FPR 22 23 24 25 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [& - associated] & 2:6 3:22,22 1 1 1:3 50:18 10 10:22 15:9 17:2 100 23:21 24:5 42:5 44:4 100,000 43:21 loth 52:17 1200 2:7 125 7:14 8:16 19:2 30:7 43:22,23 44:1 44:10,11 125,000 6:8,15,19 6:22,25 13th 33:3 150 17:8,9 18:2,12 18:13 19:3,5 24:5,9 24:13 27:2 28:18 28:20 30:2 43:9 150,000 6:19 7:9 9:10 29:13,21 41:15 43:2,7 44:19 16 22:21,22 180 40:11 190,000 6:6 195 30:2 195,000 43:25 1st 1:15 2 2 1:4 201 2:7 2018 33:3 2021 1:12 52:17 22778 52:20 26 1:12 - - -- 3 3 52:9 30 38:23 30,000 44:3 300,000 5:5,16 32801 2:4,7 332 2:3 34712 1:16 4 4 1:5 50:17 450 24:1 450,000 23:18 4871428 51:3 4:30 7:22 � -- 5 5 1:6 5,000 5:18 50 44:5 50/50 27:4,5,6 51 52:9 -6 685 1:15 8 1 8:11 1:13 1 9 9:01 1:13 51:4 a ability 10:20 48:1 able 32:4 33:18 37:15 absolutely 31:24 32:20 absorb 26:9,10 abundantly 15:22 accept 30:6 44:11 access 29:9 33:6,11 33:14 34:3,14 35:16 36:8 accountable 32:22 accurate 52:9 act 22:6 acting 1:9 action 9:19 39:20 52:15,16 active 9:17 add 16:5 38:12,13 addition 26:16 adds 26:19 adjoining 33:9 adjuster 4:24 admit 45:21,22 advice 21:16 27:14 affirmative 45:22 afternoon 5:21 6:17 7:22 ago 7:21 15:3 16:22 17:8 agony 47:9 agree 18:12 20:7,14 25:4 28:6 29:24 31:6 40:4 agreed 18:18 20:3 agreeing 19:18,21 agreement 9:10 10:2 17:17,20,24 34:23,25 35:2,9,16 35:18 36:6,9,11 39:21 ahead 41:146:1 49:10,11 air 43:10 allegation 10:16 34:10 allegations 8:23 10:24 11:6,11,24 11:24 12:13 14:23 27:25 28:1,4 allows 10:15 amazed 22:9 amend 8:18,19,21 amended 4:5,6,16 5:2 7:18 8:22 9:16 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 53 19:15 33:2 amount 14:22 24:6 28:24 analogous 16:21 analysis 12:12 animal 33:7 answer 20:13 33:21 39:11 anticipate 20:21 38:1 anybody 13:24 16:3 17:18 anyway 25:2,21 44:5,10 apologize 7:19 41:25 appeal 42:17 approval 41:14 approved 11:12 arguable 28:24 argue 29:11 argument 16:17 37:21 art 3:12 4:11 7:3,7 9:15,20 10:6,7 13:6 18:16,22 19:23 20:1,4,17 23:7,13 23:24 24:15,19 25:14,18 34:23,25 35:2,10,25 36:6 39:13 40:3 49:24 50:3,4 asked 15:2 30:5,8 43:9,16 asking 9:1015:7,8 50:5 aspect 10:8 31:13 assigned 4:24 assignment 5:22 associated 26:11 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [attach - claims] attach 19:12 attached 8:21 19:11 22:16,17 33:1,2 34:7,8 attendance 1:3 attorney 1:8 6:23 12:10 34:1 45:9,9 52:13,15 authority 11:20 37:13 authorized 6:8 9:6 9:8 52:7 available 4:19 16:16 avenue 2:3 ll aware 37:11 1- - b back 6:8,9,9,18 7:5 7:10,11,15 9:3,4 10:3 18:1,23 21:12 24:8,9 28:15 30:6 34:5 35:14 39:19 39:25 41:1,13 44:3 46:8 47:2 48:19,23 backup 43:15 bad 27:21 bait 36:16 bank 49:22 bar 33:23 based 5:10 6:23 14:19,22 15:9 16:14 25:15 26:7 29:3 36:21 39:3 basic 10:8 basically 6:13,18 7:14 8:5,7 16:11 19:4 47:6 bates 1:3 13:23 14:3,8 18:11,20,25 19:3,7 20:14,21 31:4,9,11,20,24 32:9,20 35:6,11 41:18 43:11 44:22 45:4 46:7,14,23 48:16 bed 9:13 beginning 12:21,23 believe 5:18,21 13:5 15:3 beneficiary 9:25 10:2 best 48:10,22 49:9 49:13,14 j bianchi 8:23 33:4 33:13,22 big 26:14 31:18 bigger 50:3 binding 16:1 bit 4:15 8:9 blame 33:21 board 31:25 42:6 bode 31:18 bound 15:24 boy 27:20 31:17 breach 9:24 37:17 break 3:14 8:5 breakdown 43:9 brilliant 8:7 bring 6:1 11:7 39:19 40:10 41:13 48:23 brought 17:15 building 24:1,2 29:5,7 bury 14:10 bus 13:20,2416:3 business 22:3,4,7 30:14 33:6 37:25 38:24 buy 6:14 13:1,3 40:1 c c 1:17 2:1 3:1 52:6 52:21 cafe 14:15 car 30:16 45:8 card 45:12 cards 22:13 care 17:12,14 18:18 24:25 carefully 19:16 carrier 39:2 carries 5:22 case 3:13,19 10:12 10:13,15 11:4,16 12:4,15 15:13,22 16:4 21:10,14 22:19 24:21,24 26:11 27:14,17,22 28:7,24 30:16 34:6 37:6,12 42:17,19 45:25 46:12 cases 10:22,24 11:13 14:23 15:9 17:2 23:5 27:16 37:9 38:7 45:23 casino 25:25 cave 50:4 caveat 48:11 cemetery 14:11 certain 13:1 certainly 36:13 38:17 48:4,8 certificate 29:6 52:1 certify 52:12 chance 27:4,5,6 40:21 changed 10:512:3 16:10,14 22:24 48:7 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 54 character 20:24 cheap 44:7 check 24:14 circle 40:14 48:19 cited 37:9 cities 4:3,20 5:6,7 37:24 citizen 7:23 city 1:8,9,14 3 :6,13 4:7,8,11 5:14,23 6:6,7,12,13,20 7:6 7:7,10,11 9:5,19,20 9:22,22 10:8,14,16 10:20 11:16,21 12:10,14,16,24,25 13:4,20 14:19,20 15:10,19,24 16:12 16:14 18:9 19:10 19:19,24 20:4 23:1 23:13 25:13 26:9 26:10 29:18 30:17 31:18 32:1 33:21 34:1,15,22 35:1,19 35:20,20 37:12 38:11 39:18,21 40:2,4 41:14 42:9 44:9 48:22 49:9,13 49:15,23 city's 4:15:10 16:11 21:9 39:23 48:10 claim 5:10 7:5 9:21 10:9 22:3 25:12,13 26:22 28:12 39:3 claimed 25:16 claiming 10:112:1 15:16 claims 4:23,24 6:12 19:10,19,23 25:15 49:18 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [clarification - decisions] clarification 8:15 i clarify 42:11 clear 5:5 10:18 14:17 15:22 23:10 45:18 clearly 18:9 clerk's 7:25 clermont 1:14,16 3:13 4:8 30:14 client 9:6,8 45:10 clock 29:7,8,23 close 10:2317:6 closed 1:1 3:6 6:2 6:24 51:3,4 closing 17:11 collect 26:15 come 7:6 21:8 24:9 25:14 28:15 30:4,5 32:10 33:14 35:11 41:1 43:6,20 44:2 48:1 49:17 50:5 comes 29:13 47:2 coming 16:13 30:1 43:18 44:12 comments 14:1 commission 37:16 37:17 commissioner 5:4 5:12,17,24 13:19 13:23,25 14:3,4,8, 15:2,7 16:2,17,23 17:11,16,22 18:2,8 18:11,14,20,21,25 19:2,3,7,20,25 20: 7 confirm 5:20 connected 52:15 consensus 36:19 41:8,10,13 46:22 47:6 48:17 50:13 50:14,17 consider 23:4 25:21 considerably 16:10 considering 15:8 consistent 37:10 constructed 39:24 contemplate 19:22 continue 13:5,5 23:8 Page 55 court 3:15 11:7 28:4 29:16 34:11 35:5 court's 8:23 courts 31:14 coverage 4:19,21 5:1 12:7 16:15 39:14 created 32:23 curious 49:2 current 12:13 14:20 26:8,8 currently 29:5 cut 24:13 32:25 36:16 continuously 23:3 d contract 9:25 37:18 �- - -- d 3:1 control 19:25 20:2 damages 28:24 35:21 29:2,7,8,9,12,16 corners 11:5 44:21 correct 18:20 29:1 dan 5:5 13:25,25 cost 35:9 36:10 16:23 council 3:6 6:8 7:19 daniel 1:8 10:21 11:21 12:24 ' Barren 13:21 14:6 13:9,17 15:25 23:1 date 1:12 9:2 25:5 40:2 41:14 dated 52:17 council's 13:18 davidoff 1:9 counsel 4:2 12:11 day 5:7 35:1 52:17 23 :9 52:13,15 days 4:23 count 5:14 9:19,21 deal 14:21 20:8,19 9:22,23,24 25:3 30:21 34:21 counter 18:24 49:7 countered 18:15 dealer's 45:7 counteroffer 8:16 'deals 38:16 counteroffers dean 2:6 3:21,22 17:25 4:25 county 52:4 decide 29:16 40:1 couple 8:14 decision 13:18 23:1 course 28:2144:20 36:18 48:7 decisions 37:15 - - - Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [declaratory - feel] declaratory 9:19 discouraging 43:11 due 9:2 deductible 5:6,11 discuss 46:12 , dualicitous 30:22 5:19,23 discussion 6:7,24 defeated 18:23 7:16 33:16 48:24 defense 4:2 5:2,8 discussions 4:15 12:11 13:13 39:10 7:14 13:7 42:1 45:9 46:6 dismiss 10:25 11:3 defenses 45:22 11:4 12:8 13:11 definitely 44:22 15:9 19:13,19 deliver 10:20,21 25:10 27:19,20,22 11:21 15:19 19:9 28:14 29:19 30:11 demand 6:5 29:3,3 34:9,18 36:24 29:21 40:24 42:5,12,14 demanded 19:5 42:20 44:17 45:18 demanding 6:19 45:20,23 46:5 47:1 demands 17:21 47:10 50:16 deny 45:22,22 dismissal 7:1,1 depending 12:6 dismissed 10:25 depends 20:12 district 3:12 4:11 depositions 22:18 7:3,7 9:15,20 10:6 22:22 10:7 13:6 18:17923 deserves 49:5,5 19:23 20:1,4,17 determination 4:21 23:7,14,24 24:16 determine 42:21 24:19 25:14,18 development 1:1 34:23,25 35:3,10 3:13 4:6,7 6:6,9,12 35:25 36:6 39:14 6:20,23 7:2,5,11 40:3 49:25 50:3,4 13:3 14:22 15:1 dnoah 2:8 18:7 39:12 41:16 document 11:6 dialog 33:11 doing 40:19 diane 1:17 3:14 dollars 29:12 52:6,21 doug 3:20,214:17 dice 14:14,16 26:20 4:25 5:22 8:4 13 :15 difference 20:6 37:1,4 38:15 45:13 different 40:21 48:2,5,12 dilemma 17:10 doug's 13:13 38:18 dinner 45:11 douglas 2:6 direction 39:18 drml 2:8 40:2 50:9,15 dsk 2:3 disagree 14:18 dsklawgroup.com 2:4 e e 2:1,1,7 3:1,1 9:4 earlier 12:25 42:1 early 28:7 earned 47:19 easement 10:10 12:1 32:17,23 33:14,23,24 34:3 Page 56 exactly 3:24 5:19 31:3 40:15 example 37:11 execute 19:9 exhibit 19:12 existing 34:2 j expense 3:8 15:4 16:7,13 23:8 26:7 26:11 explain 16:25 ex lained 18.22 easements 33:11,25 p 34:2 exploring 41:4 ebo 1:5 46:22 49:1 exposure 14:21 effort 32:13 1 15:4 39:24 either 13:1214:13 expressed 46:20 32:5 40:22 45:8 extended 6:15,22 elected 49:14 6:23 element 38:14 1-eyes 48:13 II' employee 52:13,14 f encroachment 33:9 f 1:8 2:2 ended 36:2 face 17:3 endorsement 5:15 fact 14:516:14 enforced 35:19 33:19 34:22 37:20 entered 9:1 42:7 entering 13:1,2 facts 12:1514:23 enterprise 17:12 22:23 entire 6:1018:19 fair 20:25 entsuah 1:5 21:4 faith 11:18,18 23:20,25 24:2,4 15:15 21:25 22:2 28:19 40:6 42:2 fall 18:17 46:24 47:12 49:3 familiar 38:2 equitable 9:23 far 5:7 esquire 2:2,6 fast 30:17 established 15:13 fault 31:5,25 estoppel 9:23 favor 12:1615:10 everybody 3:3 19:10 21:7 46:17 11:20 15:24 30:19 favorable 10:14 31:16 46:20 ! feel 10:13 11:23,23 evidence 11:8,10 12:4,12 24:6,8 28:9 22:23 25:6 31:11 34:17,18 46:25 48:6,15,20 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [feel - hiring] 49:24 fees 14:14 26:16 27:7,8 feet 27:18 28:10 35:21,23 felt 31:4 fifteen 22:21,22 fight 14:10 17:4 21:13,18 25:7 41:3 47:17 49:20 50:3 fighting 33:21 figure 30:4 43:5,6 44:13 figures 30:4 file 12:8 40:24 42:4 42:16 45:21,22 46:2 filed 4:5,7,11 7:21 8:20 13:12,12 filing 47:8 49:17 50:16 final 4:20 39:20,20 39:23 41:14 financially 52:16 finite 28:23 fire 27:18 28:11 firm 29:15 38:18 first 3:11 21:4 30:3 33:5 40:17 41:3 49:21 fish 36:16 five 16:24 35:21,23 41:21 fl 2:4,7 floor 1:15 florida 1:16,17 4:3 52:3,7 focused 26:6 folder 18:3 follow 16:6 forbid 27:3 foregoing 52:8 form 19:11 formal 23:23 34:23 formulated 37:5 forth 18:132:25 33:25 forward 36:21 37:12 39:17 45:3 46:4 48:4,11,17 50:9,15 foul 42:23 found 15:10 25:12 four 11:5 fpr 52:21 frank 48:9 frankly 7:1916:20 full 29:6 39:23 41:15 funds 23:14 further 7:16 33:22 39:13 44:18 52:12 future 39:10,23 g g 3:1 gambler 26:2 game 40:15 general 19:10 getting 18:1319:22 give 4:13 8:5 11:14 19:21 20:4 21:16 24:9,18 40:2 47:16 50:1 giving 7:20 21:7,18 21:21 35:24,25 36:1,2 47:18 49:22 go 6:8 14:15 17:5 24:8921 25:10 30:11 39:25 41:1 42:6 44:11,18 46:1 46:8,14 47:3 49:10 49:10 50:11 god 27:3 goes 9:6 40:25 42:19 going 3:10,11 8:4 8:24,25 9:16,18 13:19 14:11,12,13 14:13,15,20 15:5 18:1 21:11 22:8,9 22:12 24:9,20,21 24:22,23 25:19,19 25:21 26:9,10 28:20,20 29:11 30:10,12 33:18 35:4,22 37:25 38:1 38:2,19 40:9,13,14 40:22 41:3,22 42:6 42:24 43:2 44:18 44:20 45:12,16,17 46:1,12,12 47:2,7 47:11,14,16 48:2,8 48:9,21,22 50:1,5,6 good 11:18,18,18 15:15 21:25 22:2,4 25:13 34:19,20 41:2 47:19 50:24 51:1 gosh 8:8 gotcha 38:8 gotten 30:7 grant 8:24 granted 8:1912:2 33:23 gray 13:21 14:6 great 8:7 14:21 guarantee 17:13 guess 13:8 19:15 41:7 43:1 46:22,24 gutter 17:5 guy 8:7 21:12 22:6 27:13 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 57 guys 21:15 3 5:4 h half 29:12 32:2 hand 24:20 25:17 31:6 handing 27:13 41:3 49:16,19 handle 23:2 hang 50:10,20 happen 15:20 30:25 happened 18:21 33:17 37:16 happening 31:2 happens 12:7 20:19 28:5 46:5 happy 22:13 hard 14:15 47:15 harder 21:11 harm 42:23 harms 39:9 hate 21:18 47:12,12 49:4,4,8,12 he'll 3:17 40:10 head 49:1 hear 25:5 37:3 40:6 41:21 43:12 heard 36:25 hearing 21:10,14 27:13 41:15 42:25 heart 46:15 48:10 hefty 15:5 held 32:21 help 38:15 helping 31:12 hereto 19:11 hey 21:12 41:1 higher 43:2 44:11 hip 21:1 23:6 25:1 hiring 37:13,15 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [hit - lot] Fhit 24:10 hold 27:17 28:2,10 home 25:25 26:2 45:10 honest 49:4 hopefully 30:25 hoping 12:23 38:22 38:25 hours 32:3 hum 16:8 19:20 23:25 46:10 hundreds 32:3 hurt 30:10,12 34:6 42:24 47:11,14 i ii 9:21 iii 9:22 impeded 33:6 important 37:20,23 41:10 inclined 20:14 incurred 23:15 indemnification 7:5,10 8:17 9:12 20:5 indemnify 20:3 initially 5:1 6:3 39:16 inquired 33:24 installed 35:18 insurance 4:2,4,18 12:7 16:15 39:1,9 insured 39:2 intending 21:16 interest 32:12 48:10,22 49:9,13 49:14 interested 8:4 52:16 interests 38:9,10,11 L39:9 - - - -- --- - ---- introduced 37:7 inverse 5:14,15 9:23 26:21 investment 4:3 invoice 45:7 involved 3:18 4:9,9 8:8 involvement 38:18 involving 39:8 issue 12:2120:20 29:14 33:8 40:1 48:21 issues 6:217:17 21:2 31:7 32:23 34:13 41:12 item 3:11,16 items 3:10,10 7:9 iv 9:23 jayson 35:19,20 jeopardize 39:14 jim 1:4 22:4,14 job 12:10 51:3 joe 11:19,20 join 20:25 40:13,16 joined 23:6 40:18 judge 11:8 42:8 45:12,19,23,25 judgment 11:2,10 27:24 jumping 42:6 justify 17:4 k keep 40:12,14 41:11 50:6,7 key 12:10 kind 21:13 31:2 42:3 43:19 knew 30:15 33:12 33:13,25 34:5,13 Page 58 34:13,15 42:5 legal 12:11,16 13 :7 know 4:8 6:4 8:3 14:14 15:4 16:3 10:19 11:19 13:9 17:1 21:16 25:9 14:4,9 17:18 20:8 26:15 27:7,8,13 20:10,12,24,25 28:7 34:20 48:13 22:5,7 24:7,25 26:3 legally 28:2 26:4,23 28:11,22 legitimate 38:10 29:23 30:13,15 letter 4:21 29:3 31:14 32:9 35:8 license 10:2 37:6,7,9 38:17,21 life 31:15 39:1,20 40:8,11 limit 5:16 41:18 42:4,8,9 45:7 limits 30:17 45:8,11 46:19 48:1 line 45:2 48:20 49:6,19,21 listen 21:16 knowing 8:4 listening 21:6 knows 8:511:20 litigation 1:13:7,8 15 :24 6:2,10,14 7:7 9:13 1 9:15 13:4,4,5 16:7 lack 32:13 16:13 19:14 20:15 land 35:20 23:7 24:7 26:7,11 landscape 16:9 28:5 39:8,13 larger 29:20 little 4:13,15 8:6,9 late 6:16 27.22 latest 29:3 location 1:14 laughing 35:5 long 4:1 16:22 22:7 law 2:3 10:13,13,18 1 29:5 39:5 11:4,16 12:4,15 look 11:5,7 16:2 15:13,22 16:4 36:13 41:22 46:3 law.com 2:8 46:2148:2,5 lawsuit 7:210:8 looked 8:210:12 18:16 looking 4:22 21:3 lawton 2:6 3:22,23 27:2,2 36:20 47:24 lawyer 8:7 48:1 47:25 laying 8:23 looks 33:17 41:12 league 4:2,20,21 lose 27:4,6 28:12 5:6,7 33:7 38:16,18 37:21 42:13,18,20 39:15 44:17 45:17 46:4 leave 3:17 8:18,19 loss 29:4 8:21 lost 35:7 45:20 left 9:14 lot 15:1 26:12 27:3 31:22 36:14 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [magic - numbers] in magic 17:9,10 magnolia 2:3 mailed 9:4 making 10:915:14 27:25 man 34:12 40:10 manager 1:9 37:12 mantzaris 1:8 3:3 3:25 5 :9,13,18,25 8:12 9:11 12:9 14:17 16:5,9,20 18:6 22:14,17,22 23:11,19,22 26:6 26:18,21,24 27:9 28:22 29:2,25 34:1 35:8,15 36:4,10,17 36:20 38:14,21,25 39:25 41:9,25 43:1 43:4,22 44:16 46:17 47:5,21,23 48:19 50:7,14,19 50:22 material 14:5 matter 4:9 17:6,12 18:19 19:11 26:8 39:11 50:11 matters 7:1 mayor 1:7 21:3,6 21:22 22:1,11 24:8 24:12,15,18,25 25:5,11,17,23 26:4 27:5,12 28:13 30:2 30:24 35:22 36:7 36:23 40:16 41:6 42:25 43:5,16,24 44:4,8,16,24 46:10 46:21 47:14,22 49:12 51:1 mean 19:5 20:10 21:8,15,17 22:3 25:21,22 27:1 32:13 35:4 38:8 41:11,20 43:14 45:15 46:19,24 48:3 49:3,24 means 15:17 19:15 meet 3:6 meeting 7:1914:6 17:17 18:22 30:3 32:7 33:3,15,22 34:12 meetings 15:317:F member 15:25,25 members 11:15 michele 1:6 million 29:12 minds 23:15 minute 34:12 minutes 32:25 33:' 34:6 misrepresentation 9:21 15:16,17 missed 48:14 mistake 32:22 mistakes 14:2 32-15,16,18 monetary 9:7 money 9:14 14:14 14:22 16:25 21:7 21.12 24:20,22 25:18,25 26:2,3,5 27:3,13 28:3 39:5 41:4 43:19 44:9 47.16,19 49:16,20 49:22,23 50:2 montrose 1:15 35.13 moral 31:13,14,16 morality 37:21,22 38:8 Page 59 morgan 2:6 3:22,22 morning 8:9 motion 8:18,18,20 10:2511:1,3,4,10 necessary 28:16 12:8 13:11 15:8 need 24:23 36:16 25:10 27:19,20,21 needs 48:7 27:23 28:14 29:19 negligent 9:21 30:11 34:9,18 15:16,17 36:24 40:24 42:5 negligently 15:18 42:12,14,16,20 34:15 44:17 45:18,19,23 negotiate 34:13 46:5,25 47:8,10 42:22 48:18 50:16 negotiated 43:25 mouth 22:8 negotiating 21:24 move 20:18 36:21 22:1 39:17 45:3 46:4 negotiations 6:5 48:4,11,17 50:9,15 12:19,20,22 moving 3.15 neither 36:1 multiple 22:20 never 17:19,24 32:11 23:22 25:25 26:1,2 municipal 4:3 28:25 35:19 40:13 murry 1:7 21:3,6 45:2,7 21:22 22:1,11 2, new 33:23 24:12,15,18,25 nice 45:1 25:5,11,17,23 26:4 night 7:8,24 27:5,12 28:13 30:2 noah 2:6 3:20,21 30:24 35:22 36:7 3:24 8:11 16:10 36:23 40:16 42:25 37:5 45:14 43:5,16,24 44:4,8 j north 10:10 44:16,24 46:10,21 northern 10:4 47:14,22 49:12 notary 52:6 51:1 notes 52:10 notice 3:20 november 33:3,12 34:5 52:17 number 15:5,6 17:9,10 23:18 28:19 51:3 numbers 44:23 45:1 n n 2:1,3 3:1 nadine 5:20 neal 2:2 3:16 8:14 15:12 17:19,24 19:5,8,21 20:2,10 20:12 22:16,21 23:9 24:1 25:9,12 27:16 28:17 30:8 Veritext Legal Solutions 32:24 36:8 42:11 43:8,14 45:15 50:24 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [o - provide] o o 3:1 oakhill 14:10 obviously 3:9 4:1 4:24 13:14 38:16 39:1 43:13 47:23 occupancy 29:4,6 october 1:12 1 offer 6:8,15,16 8:15 17:20,23 18:6 20:15 23:13 offered 20:8 28:3 offering 6:25 offers 17:21,25 office 6:22 13:12,13 47:24 officially 9:1 A 5:12 24:3 28:17 ohlinger 5:20 okay 3:25 5:12,17 5:24 14:9 19:20 21:19 24:3,5,10 25:3 46:19,25 47:3 47:16 48:25 49:23 1 once 24:13 25:12 ongoing 6:14 7:1 open 49:21 opening 14:1 opinion 22:25 46:20 opportunity 17:6,7 48:5,12 option 39:25 options 41:5 orange 52:4 order 9:1 51:2 ordinances 37:14 original 6:5 18:15 18:16,25 orlando 2:4,7 outside 11:8 38:10 owner 15:23 33:9 perspective 12:16 owners 33:6 phrase 49:8 P pick 27:8 -- k d 178184 p 2:1,1 3:1 Plc e p.a. 2:6 piece 16:13 p.m. 1:13,13 51:4 pine l 2 pages 52:9 pines 1 6 15:7 16:2 paid 14:2218:18 17:1118:14,21 19:3 19:2 23:17,24 24:3 parallel 35:13 30:1,10,19 31:3,8 parcel 10:4,11 36:4 31:10,22 32:1,15 part 4:17 34:8,17 32:21 41:6,17,21 36:4 42:10,21 47:10 participated 33:16 48:18,25 particular 30:16 place 33:24 37:14 39:10 plan 11:12,14 parties 12:25 32:10 40:15 33:10 52:13,14 planning 1:15 party 4:10 6:11 7:4 Play 38:19 9:25 10:15 39:8 played 22:13 passed 18:4 plays 4:17 39:6 patient 3:4 pleading 45:21 patiently 37:1 46:2 Patrick 42:9 pleadings 12:6 pay 9:14 14:11,12 Plucked 43:10 14:13,13,25,25 pocket 16:14 18:12 21:15 23:14 1 point 3:16 7:21 8:6 41:1 10:23 12:10 13:8 paying 16:12 16:6 19:4 27:25 payment 19:9,13 28:2,15 29:17 40:4 pays 39:1 42:22 43:1 46:1,9 peace 6:1413:1,4 46:25 40:1 pointed 12:13 pending 3:7 7:2 Points 8:14 people 13:21 33:20 Policy 5:10,16 41:4 16:11 38:6 percent 42:5 portion 17:14 28:10 perception 31:19 1 Position 42:8 erson 10 19 20 24 Possibility P 22:3,4 25:22 30:14 1_ Veritext Legal Solutions Page 60 possible 3:7 44:9 possibly 17:13 26:21 potential 6:11 15:4 27:3 30:14 33:11 39:7 42:17 potentially 23:12 28.12 39:15 predict 40:9 prejudice 7:219:14 premise 18:14,15 20:15 present 33:4 presented 7:18,23 12:14 22:24 pretty 7:913:2 39:4 43:3 prevail 26:14,14 prevent 31:1 prior 4:8 probably 3:17 8:8 20:23 28:15 36:15 problem 33:13 34:16 proceed 13 :9,10,17 proceedings 52:8 product 13:15 professional 1:17 promise 13:2214:7 32:17 promised 32:7 33:15 proper 10:21 property 12:2 15:23 33 :9,16,19 34:1,14 proposed 33:7 prove 44:20 provide 12:11,18 12:18 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [provided - saved] provided 43:12,17 44:13 45:1 providing 5:1 public 17:3 37:23 37:24,25 38:1,6 41:14 52:6 pulled 7:2410:22 18:3 purpose 18:24 37:23,24 purposes 34:9 purvis 1:4 5:4,12 5:17,24 13:19,25 14:4,9,18 15:2 16:6 16:8,17,23 17:16 17:22 18:2,8 19:20 19:25 20:7,11,17 20:23 21:20,24 22:9,12,20 23:16 24:11,13,17,24 25:4,20,24 26:13 26:19,23 27:1,11 28:18,21 29:1,22 30:13,21 31:13 34:21 35:9,13,17 36:5,11,14,19,25 38:20,23 39:22 40:8 41:7,20,22 43:20,23 44:2,6,14 44:25 45:6 46:11 46:15,19 47:7,18 49:1 50:12,17,20 put 9:12,13 11:2 20:16 25:7 27:17 34:19 41:2 47:8 48:2 49:20 50:12 L- - 9 - -- quick 3:14 quite 15:12 25:18 r r 2:1 3:1 raised 37:19 raises 39:13 reach 40:2 reached 17:25 read 14:5 17:17 18:5 19:16 34:11 41:12 reading 14:19 22:23 36:15 reads 45:23 real 3:14 45:7 realistic 50:6 reality 31:15 really 8:2012:23 13:8,8 22:3 25:22 27:21 29:9 34:6,17 37:3,5 reason 4:1717:15 25:14 33:20 34:18 reasons 17:138:6 recall 6:7 11:25 receipt 19:9,13 receipts 46:8 received 4:20 6:5 6:17 7:8 9:9 reciprocated 32:14 recognize 31:14 recollection 44:14 44:25 recommendation 13:10,16 -J record 33:5 47:1 50:13 52:10 question 14:11 recuperation 49:6 15:3 18:12 19:1 refer 17:2 39:11 referred 14:24 L regard 4:14 6:4 9:15 13:6 15:1 32:19 39:7,9 regarding 3:6 rejected 7:14 rejecting 6:18 related 5:2 7:11 12:12 19:11 relative 52:12,14 release 19:10,21 39:23 41:15 released 18:9 relied 11:12,15 34:10 relief 9:19 rely 10:18 11:17 15:14,23 remained 10:9 remember 28:23 36:12 remembers 15:6 removed 9:11 rents 29:4 replied 34:1 report 52:8 reported 1:17 reporter 1:17 3:15 52:1 representations 11.15 12:3 representative 4:23 research 28:9 researched 15:9 resolution 6:25 13:2,3 40:3 resolve 6:20,21 23:12 32:5 resolved 6:10,11,13 32:4 respond 42:15 Page 61 response 6:16,17 7:8 8:17 9:3,5 responsibility 18:10 responsive 9:2 45:21 46:2 rest 20:16 resulted 7:4 results 37:8,10 revised 9:10 rid 19:22 rider 5:15 right 3:24,25 5:22 8:11,14,24 10:10 14:2,3,7 18:8 22:2 22:25 25:11 26:15 26:25 29:4 30:19 3 0:24 31:3,12,17 34:22 36:11 39:3,6 40:18 41:23 46:18 47:5 50:7 rights 10:311:14 29:4 32:18 ringers 2:6 3:21,22 4:25 risk 38:5 roberts 1:17 52:6 52:21 rock 14:15 role 12:17 roll 14:14 room 1:15 rules 38:2 running 39:15 s s 2:1 3:1 sand 45:2 sat 17:7 37:1 save 44:9 saved 24:6 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [saying - talk] saying 6:18 19:4 21:9,12 25:6 34:14 says 8:5 11:4,16 15:25 28:4 42:8 45:19 schedule 50:8 Scott 1:9 seat 1:3,4,5,6 second 3:16 4:6,16 5:2 7:17 8:21 9:16 19:15 33:2 46:12 48:12 see 24:20 28:4 29:22 39:22 40:3 40:25 42:3 43:2 44:18,23 45:4,7 48:13 50:1 seeing 50:24 51:1 seen 7:20,24 8:1 43:8,9,14 48:3 selfish 49:10,15 sense 46:7 sensitive 37:20 sent 8:15 19:16 separate 20:19 21:1 24:24 25:2 40:12 separately 3:11 served 37:23 session 1:1 3:6 6:2 6:24 51:3,4 sessions 21:9 set 3:4 26:20 48:13 settle 28:6,17 29:13 39:3,12 settlement 3:7 4:14 6:4 7:13 9:9 12:19 12:20,22 17:22 35:6 share 13:14 35:9 36:11 shoots 11:3 show 28:11 shows 35:18 side 5:2 45:16,17 sides 31:23 sidewalk 33:7 34:24 35:2 36:1,3 sight 37:22 signature 52:20 signed 8:22 similar 23:13 simply 15:17 sir 19:7 sit 16:24 40:23 site 11:12,14 sitting 3:20 24:19 30:3 situation 14:20 38:19 42:16 slap 47:19 smith 11:19,20 sold 33:17,19 34:2 34:4 35:20 somebody 32:22 37:13 soon 9:17 10:12 sorry 22:4 25:5,7 26:4 41:25 47:15 sort 43:15 sounds 47:13 48:16 speak 8:3 15:5 specific 15:2 specifically 36:12 specifics 30:6 43:18 44:12 speculative 29:15 speed 6:130:17 spend 26:3 spending 39:5 spent 32:2 38:23 spinning 31:17 spoke 8:9 spot 27:2148:3 sprinkles 3:18 50:11 51:3 staff 10:16 13:20 15:25 32:2 stand 36:23,24 start 13:2014:15 40:13 49:16,17 started 6:311:2 33:20 starting 13:20 41:8 starts 5:7 state 35:5 52:3,6 stated 33:22 statement 15:14 33:4,5,8 statements 32:25 states 16:4 stating 19:4 status 4:13 26:8 stenographic 52:10 stenographically 52:7 step 12:6,7 42:4,10 42:19 stock 35:5 stop 20:18 stopped 29:8,23 street 1:15 2:7 35:14 stringfield 33:10 strong 12:4 21-10 21:13 27:14 28:10 stronger 11:23 18:23 21:11 27:22 strongly 12:15,15 34:18 stuff 22:17 34:19 34.20 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 62 subject 34:2 submit 28:14 submitting 36:23 substantial 14:21 28:25 substantiating 30:9 successful 29:19 sucking 37:1 sue 9:18 sued 9:18 suggest 39:17 suggesting 13:11 suing 9:510:6,7,7 suite 2:7 sum 26:16 summary 11:1,10 27:23 support 47:8 supposed 35:24,24 35:25 supreme 35:5 sure 3:15 5:19 13:2 16:21 25:18 29:17 29:19,20 30:25 31:2 37:5 39:21 surprised 47:2 suspect 31:16 46:11 sworn 8:22 system 38:8 t t 2:6 table 17:9 26:20 31:16 32:10 41:12 tact 10:5 take 3:14 13:13 18:18 40:22 48:2 taken 1:12 22:19 talk 3:9,12,18 4:15 7:16,17 8:13 12:17 13:17 16:7 21:5 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [talk - wanting] 46:18 thinking 24:19 talked 4:23 talking 24:15 35:7 36:10 45:16 taxpayer 21:7 taxpayers 16:25 team 13:15 48:5 technicality 8:20 tell 26:7 37:8,24 39:2 40:10 45:10 48:8 telling 27:14 28:1 tells 37:12 temporary 10:2 35:15 36:8 tend 31:6 term 4:1 terminated 37:17 terms 29:7 test 27:17,24 28:3 tested 28:8 testimony 11:8 thank 3:3 50:22,24 theories 27:24 28:8 theory 25:9 thing 16:23 23:3 32:6,7 40:18,20,20 49:19 things 22:5 30:15 31:2,23 34:11 37:22 41:24 42:2 think 5:5,2110:23 12:9 14:5,19,25 17:8 19:16 20:25 21:20 23:4,5,21 24:4 25:20 26:16 26:25 28:1 29:23 29:23 31:6 36:16 40:16,17 43:17 44:19 46:20 49:5 50:2,5,9 L third 4:10 6:2,11 7:4 9:25 thomas 2:2 thought 15:19,20 18:2 33:18 42:1 43:12 three 17:8 throw 13:20 45:24 throwing 13:23 16:3 thrown 10:24 ticking 29:8 tie 25:1 tim 1:7 time 1:13 6:1 16:22 21:8,8,11 28:17 29:5 31:18 33:12 38:9 49:7 50:8 times 3:5 32:11 timothy 1:3 tneal 2:4 today 3:10 4:13 26:12 34:22 37:7 40:10,19,20 45 -21 told 11:19 34:15 tom 7:15,17 8:1,12 12:13 13:11 14-24 15:3,5 17:16 18:3 37:9 47:24 50:11 50:23 tomorrow 40:9,11 40:19,20 ton 14:13 24:22 tonight 21:10 34:22 36:16 39:18 45:11 tossing 14:16 totally 31:5 tough 20:13 town's 37:14 Page 63 transact 37:25 v transcript 51:2 v 9:24 52:9 vacuum 23:5 trial 45:16 van 9:4 tried 32:144:9 vet 39:19 true 14:7,8 44:8 viable 28:12 45:13,15 52:9 viewpoint 37:3 truly 17:4 49:24 views 37:6 trust 4:3,4 48:20 violation 36:5 try 6:9,10 26:3 virtually 10:15 32:1139:19 virtue 4:10 trying 5:20 25:1 voorhees 9:4 30:3 31:1 32:3 41:9 vote 10:21 11:22 43:5 50:1 25:8 turn 8:1215:21 voted 16:1 25:17 vp 1:1 3:12 4:6,7 two 3 :9,10 7:21 6:6,9,12,20,23 7:2 15:3 21:1,1 32:10 7:5,11 9:14,18 10:1 33:10,20 37:19 13:3 14:22 15:1 38:9 40:12 41:23 17:12 18:7,18 19:9 type 10:24 41:2 19:13 24:9,15,17 47:17 49:6 � 24:18,20 25:16,18 typical 39:5 - A 33:1 35:24 39:12 u 40:20 41:16 50:1,4 3.p's ultimate 118 L v 19:19 25:12 um 16:819:20 i w 23 :25 41:17,17 w 1:15 46:10 wait 34:12 underlie 38:7 waiting 24:19 understand 5:10 walked 26:4 32:16 38:20 24 ' want 3:9 5:25 13:9 47:6 50:15 23:2,2 25:19 31:20 unfortunately 23:4 36:2137:2139:3,4 27:10 36:18 38:21 39:22 40:12 41:2 update 4:13 42:22 44:11 use 10:2 29:6 wanted 9:13 12:9 usually 27:16,24 12:24 36:15 44:5,6 28:2,5,5,6 44:12 utility 33:23,25 wanting 21:23 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [wants - zero] wants 13:9 20:17 40:2 water 28:2 way 13:6 15:21 23:8,11,11 24:8 27:9,11,16 28:5 32:18 34:20 46:3 wayne 16:18 ways 33:1 we've 6:3 11:2,15 12:20 13:15 17:7,9 22:17 28:8,9,25 43:8,9 47:24 50:9 weatherbee 16:18 website 7:25 weeks 7:21 ,went 7:15 16:25 26:1 34:12 whatsoever 32:12 'wife 45:10 wild 45:12 willing 25:7 27:12 29:13 40:4 win 10:15 11:9 25:9 27:6,7 42:13,14,16 42:18,18,20 45:16 j 45:25 46:3,4 window 20:16 wine 33:23 wish 42:3 word 22:7 words 9:7 18:10 39:12,24 work 12:24 16:18 27:9,1 32:11 33:18 34:20 working 32:. world 17:2 worth 29:12 wrenching 46:15 wrist 47:19 writing 22:5,10 written 34:23 wrong 31:5 wronged 42:9 x x 10:17 y 10:17 yada 31:15,15,15 34:24,24,24 yeah 15:12 18:6 19:2 22:11 23:22 24:2 25:24 28:19 29:25 35:8 42:25 44:24 45:14 46:17 49:3,10,10 50:14 year 32:2 years 38:23 yesterday 6:16,17 9:9 z zero 5:11,22 Page 64 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 FLORIDA RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE Rule 1.310 (e) Witness Review. If the testimony is transcribed, the transcript shall be furnished to the witness for examination and shall be read to or by the witness unless the examination and reading are waived by the witness and by the parties. Any changes in form or substance that the witness wants to make shall be listed in writing by the officer with a statement of the reasons given by the witness for making the changes. The changes shall be attached to the transcript. It shall then be signed by the witness unless the parties waived the signing or the witness is ill, cannot be found, or refuses to sign. If the transcript is not signed by the witness within a reasonable time after it is furnished to the witness, the officer shall sign the transcript and state on the transcript the waiver, illness, absence of the witness, or refusal to sign with any reasons given therefor. 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Veritext Legal Solutions further represents that the attached exhibits, if any, are true, correct and complete documents as submitted by the court reporter and/or attorneys in relation to this deposition and that the documents were processed in accordance with our litigation support and production standards. Veritext Legal Solutions is committed to maintaining the confidentiality of client and witness information, in accordance with the regulations promulgated under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), as amended with respect to protected health information and the Gramm -Leach -Bliley Act, as amended, with respect to Personally Identifiable Information (PII). Physical transcripts and exhibits are managed under strict facility and personnel access controls. Electronic files of documents are stored in encrypted form and are transmitted in an encrypted fashion to authenticated parties who are permitted to access the material. Our data is hosted in a Tier 4 SSAE 16 certified facility. Veritext Legal Solutions complies with all federal and State regulations with respect to the provision of court reporting services, and maintains its neutrality and independence regardless of relationship or the financial outcome of any litigation. Veritext requires adherence to the foregoing professional and ethical standards from all of its subcontractors in their independent contractor agreements. Inquiries about Veritext Legal Solutions' confidentiality and security policies and practices should be directed to Veritext's Client Services Associates indicated on the cover of this document or at www.veritext.com. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Page 1 CLOSED LITIGATION SESSION RE: STEPHEN SPRINKLES IN ATTENDANCE: TIMOTHY BATES, SEAT 1 JIM PURVIS, SEAT 2 EBO ENTSUAH, SEAT 4 MICHELE PINES, SEAT 5 TIM MURRY, MAYOR DANIEL F. MANTZARIS, CITY ATTORNEY SCOTT DAVIDOFF, ACTING CITY MANAGER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * DATE TAKEN: 13 TIME: 14 LOCATION: 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTED BY: OCTOBER 26, 2021 9:02 P.M. UNTIL 9:52 P.M. CITY OF CLERMONT 685 W. MONTROSE STREET, 1ST FLOOR PLANNING CONFERENCE ROOM CLERMONT, FLORIDA 34712 DIANE C. ROBERTS FLORIDA PROFESSIONAL REPORTER Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 CAN 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DOUGLAS T. NOAH, ESQUIRE OF: Dean, Ringers, Morgan & Lawton, P.A. 201 E. Pine Street, Suite 1200 Orlando, FL 32801 dnoah@drml-law.com Veritext Legal Solutions Page 2 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 WM 23 24 25 Page 3 P R O C E E D I N G S MR. MANTZARIS: Okay. So, the same discussion we just had. This is one of the times we're meeting in a closed litigation session to talk about the possible settlement and litigation expense of an ongoing litigation matter. We're going to talk now about the Sprinkles -- Stephen Sprinkles case against the City of Clermont. Doug has been the recent defense counsel on this. I think, Mr. Bates -- maybe, Mr. Purvis, were you in the last closed litigation session we had? COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I was. MR. MANTZARIS: I think the two of you were probably in that. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I still need a lot of education, though. MR. MANTZARIS: And at that time, one of Doug's partners were representing the case, and Doug has taken over representation of it from him. So, that was John Conner, if you might remember, was handling it. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. MR. MANTZARIS: So, I'm going to let Doug just -- basically, he's been handling it. He's run Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 4 1 lead on it and he knows everything -- the ins and 2 outs about it, and he can give you the status of 3 where we are. 4 MR. NOAH: Do you have the names of everybody 5 that's in attendance at the meeting and the time 6 we're starting? 7 COURT REPORTER: The time is 9:03. 8 MR. NOAH: Just go ahead and record that. 9 COURT REPORTER: Yes. 10 MR. NOAH: Okay. And as you all know, we 11 cannot go off the record at any time. The court 12 reporter is taking down everything that we say in 13 the room. And when she is finished with this, those 14 notes will be transcribed into English, they'll be 15 provided to the City Clerk, and the Clerk will hold 16 those confidentially until all litigation matters 17 are over. 18 So, I want to be respectful of everybody's 19 time. Typically, the agenda that I follow is to 20 provide what the background of the case is, what 21 the current status is, some consequences -- because, 22 we've had ruling in this case -- and then, what 23 the future progression is going to be, and then 24 entertain discussion. But, obviously, feel free to 25 interrupt me any time that you want. And I work for Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 5 you, not the other way around. So, if anybody has a different agenda that they want to follow, or have questions right off the bat, we're here to make you all feel comfortable and knowledgeable about this case. Okay? Not seeing any objections, then I'll just go ahead and move forward. So, Mr. Sprinkles bought a lot in Clermont in 2011. And let me just orient you -all to where this is. I know that you're not going to be able to see this very well, but -- so, if we have Lake Minneola here, and this is Minneola Street, if I've got my directions right, the property is like right over here. And the property that we're talking about, I've highlighted it in yellow. There's two lots there, and I've highlighted actually the area of the property approximately that is not in dispute. Okay? This map becomes important for a couple of reasons. When Mr. Sprinkles purchased this property, his Warranty Deed said that he took it according to this particular map that I'm showing you. And that's significant. Because, this map shows that the property that he's buying does not have ingress and egress to Minneola Street, because there is the depiction of a lake here. So, when he Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 6 purchases this property, he's buying it subject to this area. And there's -- there are four Supreme Court cases that actually say that, okay -- So, why -- this part is in dispute. Mr. Sprinkles says he owns the lot, that extends all the way up to Minneola, and the City says that he does not. So, how has that disputed? How has that become crystalized? Okay. Well, from Mr. Sprinkles' standpoint, so he's not a particularly sophisticated investor. He purchased a piece of land from a friend of his. The friend told him that the land could be developed and he goes out there and looks at the land. He pulls up on Minneola Street and he can access the land from Minneola Street. And he doesn't -- when he signs his deed, he's not going down to the public records, to see if there -- what kind of restrictions are on this property. And I'm not being pejorative, by the way, when I say he's not sophisticated. He will tell you that, directly, okay? So, that's how he comes to own the property. Now, this is what the property looks like when we fast -forward to 2017. So, we're talking about these two parcels, okay? And now what you can see is the Victoria Point. All of that is stormwater. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 Page 7 And there's a sophist- -- there's a better name for it. 3 MR. MANTZARIS: Victory Point. 4 MR. NOAH: Victory Point, sorry about that. 5 But, it's a real nice development that is over 6 there and it also helps filter water that's going 7 into Minneola. But, you can see that it's 8 encroaching on one of the lots and, potentially, 9 another one. This line, right here, this is the 10 waterline that I was showing you. So, the City 11 says, well, he never owned from this point, down to 12 this point. 13 Let's talk about that. Why would the City say 14 that? Because, in the 140s, there was a special 15 enactment, and the special enactment said that any 16 property that the State owns, that is underwater -- 17 I'm being a little bit overly broad, but, basically, 18 it goes to the local jurisdictions where that is 19 located. So, this -- this area being designated as 20 West Lake being underwater, at least, at the time 21 that the plat is drawn back in the 1920's, the City 22 believes, well, the property is conveyed to us by 23 this special enactment. 24 So, the Plaintiff, I think, has done a good 25 job in this case. What he did is, he went to Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 8 Tallahassee, and asked Tallahassee, did you ever own this property? And Tallahassee -- the State, denies that it ever owned the property. And since it wasn't owned by the State, it wasn't the State's to convey, and so it's not the City's. All right? So, that's the fact pattern that we come to, now. What about from Mr. Sprinkles' standpoint? Why does he think he owns this area? Well, I told you the practical reason, but there are basically two legal reasons that he asserts as to why he owns this property. The first one -- there's really three legal reasons. The first one is that this map is drawn wrong. This whole area should be depicted -- he had an expert that says this, a surveyor. This whole area should be depicted over to the west, and, therefore, it never encroached on this property. So, you go to the next monument, which is the roadway. So, he owns it all the way down to the roadway. That's kind of like their technical surveyor argument. Not so much a legal argument, but good surveying practices. The legal argument is twofold. First, it's a pattern in practice of the City. So, the City has treated this as though it is private property. There's been a structure on this, a housing Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 9 structure. There's been access onto the property. There's been building permits. Not all building permits, by the way, were being issued by the City. At one time, when the County was issuing permits for the City, the County issued these. There -- there's been code enforcement against the property. And, so, once it became clear that the State didn't own this, our argument became very formalistic. It was, Mr. Sprinkles does not have standing to bring this suit, because he doesn't own -- he cannot demonstrate that he owns this particular area. And all of the things that I just told you about the City practices have occurred outside of this area. That's disputed. That's been the City's position. The other legal argument is that, in Florida, the way it works, is, when you have water -- and, in this particular case, the water starts to dry up and move away -- then, the property owners that had the property adjacent to the water, they acquire that property. It kind of follows the waterline. So, once this became dry -- it's called reliction. And once this area became dry, he acquired ownership of all the land all the way up to the -- to the street. So, that -- those were the different positions Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 10 1 that the parties took about ownership. And -- and 2 they briefed them, in the form of a Motion for 3 Summary Judgment, which is, basically, both sides 4 puts on the evidence they have, the record evidence, 5 to the judge. It's kind of like a trial. But, they 6 put on the record evidence, and they say, Judge, 7 their case doesn't get any better than it is today 8 and we are entitled to judgment as a matter of law. 9 And we filed cross motions making each of these 10 arguments, the City's argument, and they made the 11 Plaintiff's argument. 12 The judge -- the judge recounted the evidence 13 that was put in. But, other than recounting the 14 evidence, he really didn't comment on it. He really 15 decided this case on the reliction issue. He said 16 that, as best he could tell the facts, there was 17 once water on this property. The water has receded, 18 and so it receded to Mr. Sprinkles' benefit and he 19 owns the property. And as I showed you, as of 2017, 20 now, given the Judge's finding, we are on the 21 property. So, that has consequences. 22 There were four or five different legal 23 theories that the Plaintiff put out. One was 24 inverse condemnation, and one was trespass, and 25 then, the other, kind of repetitive of those two. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 11 Now, with the inverse condemnation, the findings that were on the property turns this process really into what becomes like an eminent domain proceeding. Okay? And, so, the first step is, we go back to the Court -- this is the plan. The things -- I told you the status, and now I'm going to go to the progress of the case, the consequences and the progress of the case into the future. What the parties have to do is go in front of the judge, again, and get a meets and bounds description -- one of those very technical descriptions -- about how the property lies, how much of the property has been taken by the City, and how much remains in -- in Mr. Sprinkles' control. Now, this might sound a little bit counterintuitive. But, what they would like is for the Court to find that -- I'm kind of confused, in my -- yes. What they would like is for the Court to find that all of their property was taken along this line. And why is that? Because, no ingress/egress from the property means that there's nothing they can do with the property. Meaning, that they have this huge loss without any countervailing offset, okay? So, that is going to be their argument. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 12 1 That's what we anticipate. i 2 What we anticipate arguing is that the -- the 3 City's encroachment is only where it's depicted on 4 this map. There is a 20-foot area here where they 5 can still gain access. I will tell you, there's a 6 pump of some sort at that location. That pump would 7 have to be moved, for them to actually be able to 8 use it now. So, that's the first thing, is, we're 9 going to get clarification from the Court about 10 exactly what has been taken. 11 The second thing is, now, just like in eminent 12 domain proceeding, the Court is going to swear in 13 12 jurors to hear this case and to determine what 14 the damages are. The damages are going to be 15 calculated according to a standard that's called 16 highest and best use. And, so, the -- all of these 17 things have disputes associated with them, of 18 course. So, the Plaintiff's experts -- let me tell 19 you what -- what they are saying, up to date. These 20 have not been finalized, yet. But, the -- 21 initially, the Plaintiffs hired Marvin Puryear -- 22 MR. MANTZARIS: Um -hum. 23 MR. NOAH: -- who is a broker, to estimate what 24 the loss has been. Mr. Puryear put the loss well 25 north of a million dollars. Since that time, they Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 FW 2 3 DO 5 6 7 8 9 10 IMM 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 13 have retained -- in anticipation of this hearing that I told you about, where we're going to determine the compensation that's due, they have hired Richard Dreggors. And the anticipation, of course, is that he'll put an equally large number on the board, and they are entitled to attorneys' fees. And, to date, their attorneys' fees are approximately $230,000, up through the time of Summary Judgment. They had incorporated a new lawyer to take over the eminent domain proceedings, a very seasoned lawyer, a very good lawyer, and a lawyer who charges -- I don't know what his bills are, but his name is Jay Small, if this means anything to you. But, Jay Small has been putting in a tremendous amount of work getting this case ready. Current status is that the -- the parties determine, first, that they would need some time to get their experts geared up. And I'm going to talk about exposure in a minute. But, to get their experts geared up for this hearing would take some time. So, there's been a continuance granted. And, so, that hearing won't go until one of the parties says, we're ready for this to go, and then the Court will put it on a hearing date. So, we don't have an immediate date for that hearing to take place. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 WO 24 25 Page 14 That's a good and bad thing. It gives us time to have meetings like this and decide what we want to do with this case, but it's bad because they are on the meter and it's running all the time. And, so, when I say on the meter, I mean on the City or on the League's meter. I have also filed an appeal. This -- the appeal -- just so you know, it's only a Notice of Appeal. It's something that has a very strict deadline associated with it. And if you miss the deadline, you lose your appellate rights. So, I filed, in the assurance that we would not lose that right. There is a dispute between the parties about whether or not we have a final order that is appealable. Because, the Court only ruled finally on some counts, not on all counts. So, that's another issue that we're discussing right now and also gives us time to think about how we want to defend the case. So, that's the liability issue. The liability has been decided. The last time you -all were together with Mr. Connor, I think that he was pretty clear that, when you go in to a hearing like that, or to trial, with the sense that, yeah, we don't own it, but they can't prove that they own it either, you know, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Fipm 13 14 15 16 Page 15 you're kind of negotiating from a position of weakness at that point. If it's going to be overturned, it'll have to be overturned by the Fifth. And I will say that the Court, in my estimation, got right to a concise issue, didn't have a lot of frivolousness in his order. The order is only about like five pages long. He cited the strength of the cases as he saw them. And, so, that is what will be going up on appeal. He's either interpreted those cases correctly or he hasn't. So, an appeal is -- is a coin toss, at best, is how I see it, right now. Okay? So, let's talk about exposure, unless anybody has any other questions on liability, before we move on. COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, it almost sounds 17 1 like -- 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I have one question. But, go ahead, Michele. COMMISSIONER PINES: I have a question. The million dollars that they're throwing out there, that's for the entire property? It's not for the portion that was taken? MAYOR MURRY: Just for the portion taken, isn't it? Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 16 MR. NOAH: Correct. And it's going to be north of a million. COMMISSIONER PINES: It's for the full property -- the full property -- MR. NOAH: Correct. COMMISSIONER PINES: -- with the dried-up lakefront portion? The entire property? MR. NOAH: The entire property. COMMISSIONER PINES: So, that's north of a million? MR. NOAH: And I'm going to come back to exposure. I'm going to go into detail. Because, I can tell you, there's going to be a deep dispute about exposure. So, I promise you, I'm going to answer that question. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, you mentioned, in your opening comments, that, prior to him purchasing it, he pulled up in front of the property, and I think you said he eyeballed it, it had access to the street. I assume that was Minneola Avenue. So, he literally pulled up and said, that's the potential lot, and here's, I guess, a curb cut, or whatever, that existed there. MR. NOAH: I'm not 100 percent sure on the curb cut. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 17 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. MR. NOAH: I didn't see it. But, he told me he pulled up in the street. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: But, it actually did come to the street? MR. NOAH: Yeah. I think he told me he pulled up on the grass. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. MR. NOAH: I think that that's -- MAYOR MURRY: I don't think there was a curb along that area. So, you could easily pull up onto the curb -- or onto the grass. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, the only reason I said curb cut was, didn't you say that there was a house there and some code enforcement? MAYOR MURRY: The house is a little further up. COMMISSIONER PINES: There's a duplex. COMMISSIONER BATES: There's a house demo'd on the property. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, do you think they had a curb cut? COMMISSIONER BATES: Well, not necessarily. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, I guess not. But, you know, anyway. MR. NOAH: Your point is taken. They -- they Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 18 1 could drive up on the lot. That's the point that 2 you're making, and that is true. 3 COMMISSIONER PINES: And you said they had 4 20 feet access to get up onto the property, 5 currently? 6 MR. NOAH: Now, yes, ma'am. That's correct. 7 COMMISSIONER PINES: Um -hum. 8 MR. NOAH: Okay. Now, what they're going to 9 argue is that we've taken all the way to the 10 waterline, which is going to put it -- which would 11 cut off that access. But, anyway, I -- I kind of 12 like the City's argument on that, that there is an 13 easement. 14 Now, again, even as I say that, there is a pump 15 or an obstruction there. And, so, that -- that 16 would have to be moved. And I'm not even sure what 17 that is, to be honest, if it aerates the lake, or -- 18 I'm not quite sure what that is. I've heard 19 different things. 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Do you know, Scott? 21 MR. DAVIDOFF: No, I don't -- I'm not sure what 22 ithat is. 23 j MR. NOAH: So, now I would like to go from 24 liability to exposure, okay? Exposure. This is 25 on -- what is going to happen, now, to the -- to the Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 19 City, with respect to the Judge's finding, unless it's overruled by the Fifth District Court of Appeals, they will have experts -- well, let me -- let me start with this. The first thing is, the exposure will somewhat depend on whether or not there is the access. So, let's assume that the pump blocks the access, or whatever that apparatus is out there right now, it blocks the access. Our expert, of course, can reduce the exposure, if the -- if the City would agree to move that pump and to provide access, because now the property will have some use. That's number one. The other issue with exposure is, as you know, the -- I'll probably get this wrong, but the business development district. The new -- that is kind of surrounding this property. Right now, the property is zoned in a way to where its highest and best use would be -- if they could get it approved, would be either a duplex or a quadplex, okay? And what their expert -- the person whose name I threw out, Mr. Puryear, he's assuming that it's going to be a quadplex, okay? And he has his method of determining loss. And, so, what he basically says -- and, again, this is subject to change. But, just to give you a Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 20 feel of where they're going, it's going to be -- it's going to be changed when Dreggors comes on. He'll be their real money person. But, basically, how he gets there, is, he assumes that a duplex could have been built when the property was taken. He gets a -- he does some comparables of what duplexes are pulling in. There's some -- there's arguments for some of this, okay? I'll just put it that way. Because, he messes up the timeline. This property was taken back in 2017. And he confuses -- or inflates, I should say, not confuses -- smart guy -- but, he inflates 2017 prices with 2021 prices, and those are different markets. But, set that stuff aside, for a moment. What he does is, he makes some comparables. He gets so many square feet. He looks at how many square feet could be built, if this was a quadplex, and he comes up with a number, and the number is going to be north of a million, okay? So, that's how he gets there. If it is part of the business district, okay? So, now, what the -- and, keep in mind, highest and best use has a reasonableness component. So, I'm just telling you the argument that they're going to make. Whether or not they could get these things Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 M. 9 10 16 17 41-A 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 21 approved or not -- whether it's likely that the Commission would approve it or not -- is a different issue. But, what they are going to argue is, now, if they have the business district zoning, first of all, the argument is going to be, we can anticipate that we will get it. Because, it's all around this property. So, you know, we have kind of a donut, where this is the only property that doesn't have it, so it's likely that it would be granted. The -- now, they can put up two units, up to a height of four. And then, they have lake view. Because, on the top floors, you can see Lake Minneola. And, so, they -- they're -- they put all of these things together and they come up with a number. Here's what all our -- there will be a big debate between the experts. And the jury, 12 people, are going to have to determine what they take from it and just put a value on the property. So, let me give you theirs, first, so you have the sticker shock out of the way. COMMISSIONER PINES: Can I ask you a quick question? What is the size of the property? Do we know? Or the dimensions of it? MR. NOAH: It's pretty -- I do have the Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 �1*m 23 24 25 Page 22 dimensions, and it's -- it's pretty small. I mean, it's -- COMMISSIONER PINES: Um -hum. I'm wondering the dimensions. Because, is it -- is it even buildable? COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, I'm sure it's buildable, to some degree. But, I agree with you. You're not going to get a fourplex on it -- COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: -- or a three -and -a -half story lake -view building. COMMISSIONER BATES: Not now. But, you might have, prior. MAYOR MURRY: No, they aren't going to do it prior. Those are very small. MR. NOAH: They had less opportunities, prior. It's the new zoning that would allow them to have the four floors. There's costs associated with it, if it goes up four floors, and there's elevators that have to be installed. That maintenance is a huge -- so, these numbers are very much up in the air. So -- but, at any rate, we know that Dreggors is going to put a big number on the board. And, so, if it's a million -five, or whatever it is, he'll follow probably about the same kind of format that Puryear did. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 G! 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 23 What does our expert say? So, our expert takes a -- kind of a pragmatic look at it. He takes a look at what the cost -- he has doubts. Because, you take a look at the construction costs that it would take. Once you get all of the collection of the construction costs, then you can back out what they would have to charge for these things in order to cover the costs. And the number is up there, somewhere like 450 and 560. Victoria Point is a project that's contemplated just right where the same property is. Victoria Point, the latest that I've heard is, they've given up on their project now and they're selling it for the value of the raw land. And it's not just the value of the raw land, it's the value of -- and I don't know if you've heard this, but the value of the raw land, plus all of the designs that they have. Whoever would purchase it would get the designs and the current zoning and everything. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Is this the lumber yard? MR. DAVIDOFF: No. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I'm lost. MR. NOAH: Victoria Point, I want to say, is, just right south of this. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: It's on Montrose Street, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 24 isn't it? COURT REPORTER: I can't get people talking at the same time. But, go ahead. MR. NOAH: I want to say, Victoria Point is on Montrose Street, right behind where this property is. Does that ring a bell? COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Is that Darren Johnson's? COMMISSIONER PINES: I think they're talking about Darren's -- MAYOR MURRY: Marketplace. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Marketplace, okay. COMMISSIONER PINES: And the apartments. COMMISSIONER BATES: I thought there were some condos, or something, going there. MR. MANTZARIS: Okay, guys. You can't talk over each other. COMMISSIONER BATES: I thought there was a project over there somewhere, where they were pre -selling some type of condo units. COMMISSIONER PINES: That's -- that's on Montrose. COMMISSIONER BATES: That's the one I think I'm talking about. It has three floors? MR. NOAH: It has three floors. COMMISSIONER BATES: Um -hum. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 25 1 COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah. It's grass. 2 COMMISSIONER BATES: Grass. 3 COMMISSIONER PINES: Okay. Gotcha. 4 MR. NOAH: So, my understanding -- if we're -- 5 if we're talking -- I don't want to give bad 6 information. I'm not -- I'm from Orlando, so I'm 7 not familiar with what's going on, here. But, it's 8 been explained to me as Victoria Point, I thought. 9 So -- but, it's a three -- it's a three -level 10 complex. I think that there's two or three, each 11 floor. 12 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And it has a parking lot 13 underneath. 14 MR. NOAH: It has parking underneath Darren's, 15 right. 16 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: That's Darren Johnson's 17 property. 18 MR. NOAH: Well, I understand now that they've 19 given up on the project, and they're going to sell 20 it for the raw land, plus all the design and 21 everything. 22 COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah. 23 MR. NOAH: And the sale price for that is not a 24 million -six, a million -five, it's a million -one, is 25 what I understand. Okay? Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 26 1 So, why does our expert think that's important? 2 Because, the speculation is that they couldn't get 3 the units sold for those prices. And -- and those 4 prices were lower than what these folks would have 5 to charge if they had the four floors, or the three 6 floors, or something. So, he has this idea that 7 it's probably not feasible, going in. So, that's 8 one issue. 9 Then, the other issue is that, even when he 10 does his comparables, and he's looking at the dollar 11 value per square foot of comparable duplexes, and 12 quadplexes, and so forth, that is around -- and, 13 right now, he has about -- I want to say -- he 14 showed me about eight of them -- the dollar per 15 square foot he's giving is much less. And I wish I 16 was more articulate about this. But, the number 17 that he -- he says that he does not believe that 18 they can get above $100,000 for the remainder -- I 19 feel like I'm messing that up. He's putting their 20 damages at $100,000. I can be clear with you on 21 that, because I had a meeting with him just today. 22 He thinks that that's your worst exposure. 23 So, you know, we have an expert that's saying a 24 million, we have an expert that's saying $100,000. 25 And just so you know, by way of background, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 14 15 16 17 0M 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 27 Mr. Sprinkles tried to sell this property on two different occasions. Both times, he tried to sell it for about $80,000, and those sales fell through and there was a problem with the title. It very well could be this very same issue, with the lake encroachment or the old lake encroachment. But, that's the battle that we have. And -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Can I jump in, a second? MR. NOAH: Sure. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Is a title company involved in this in any way, that they might have some exposure, too? MR. NOAH: Lots of conversation about that in a prior shade meeting. Mr. Sprinkles -- I'm a little bit confused, to be honest with you, on what Mr. Sprinkles' testimony was. On the one hand, he seems to be saying, yes, I had title coverage. So, then, the logical next question was, well, what is the claim? Did you make a claim on them for exactly this? His response was, yes, but the claim was denied. And, so -- and we don't have good evidence on why the claim was denied, okay? You kind of want to speculate that perhaps it had something to do with, the coverage was only down to the lake, or something along those Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 28 1 lines. Okay? 2 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. 3 MR. NOAH: My thinking is -- let's assume that 4 there was coverage. If there was coverage and it 5 was paid out, I think you'd be in the same shape 6 anyway, because I think it would be the insurance 7 company, then, coming after the City for like a 8 subrogation claim or something along those lines. 9 Some sort of -- 10 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: That was the point of my 11 question. 12 MR. NOAH: Yeah. So -- so, where we are, right 13 now, we have a ruling from the Court that we have 14 taken property. This -- this enters the realm, now, 15 of eminent domain. There's an appeal pending, but 16 it is in the offing, right now. It's -- your rights 17 are preserved, but we're not briefing the issue, or 18 anything. And, meanwhile, we are going to have an 19 eminent domain proceeding. 20 Now, when -- I just feel like I would like to 21 throw this out before I go into too much detail. 22 One tangent, if I may, okay? The League hires 23 lawyers to represent your interest, okay? I do not 24 represent the League. And that can be a source of 25 misunderstanding, sometimes. You all may have Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 29 gotten this speech, once or twice. My duties, my loyalties, runs to the City exactly like Dan's do, okay? The only thing that differentiates me from Dan, is, I only represent you on this one case, Dan represents you on everything, including this case. So, he gets to second guess me, but I never get to second guess Dan. So, that's the direction that the arrow is pointing. MR. MANTZARIS: He's not public. MR. NOAH: So -- so, at any rate, I tell you that, to tell you this. The League does pay me, however. And, so, it puts me in a conflict situation if there is any kind of dispute between the City and the League. But, I do represent you all, so this is what you need to know. The League has taken the position -- this is the latest conversation I've had with the League, okay? And Dan may have some more information on this. But, the League has taken the position that, wait a minute, this is now an eminent domain proceeding. We don't cover eminent domain. And, so, therefore, City, you are now on your own. Except, if the Court were to overrule the taking, okay, then -- then, the League's coverage continues. But, as long as it is in the posture that it Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 30 1 currently is, the League has told me that they don't 2 think that they have coverage for that claim 3 anymore. 4 There are some nuances to that, that you -all 5 should know. It was not only an inverse 6 condemnation claim that was brought, it was also a 7 trespass claim. And, I don't know, I've never read 8 your policy. I kind of think that the trespass 9 claim might still be covered. But, I'm just letting 10 you know that the League has taken that posture. 11 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Have they cut you off? 12 MR. NOAH: Yeah. So, let's talk about that. 13 If the League does cut off coverage, then, yes, they 14 will no longer pay our salary, okay? Because, there 15 is no defense to put on. Sometimes, as you know, 16 Commissioner, there -- there are reservations of 17 rights, where they will say, hey, I can't promise 18 you I'm going to pay for the exposure. However, 19 I'll pay for the cost of defense. We -- I have not 20 worked out those details. That's something that the 21 City is going to have to work on with the League, 22 directly. Because, I'm in a conflict, so I can't 23 get into that. 24 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Sure. 25 MR. NOAH: But, there's -- there's different Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 31 1 levels of being cut off, I guess, for lack of a 2 better word. 3 So, that's -- that's where the posture is. 4 Which suggests to me that, you know, now we're kind 5 of like with the last case. We're to gain theory. 6 You're trying to decide what to do, based on what 7 you think somebody else might do. I think it's 8 going to be a heavy price tag to try to settle this 9 case. I think that they think that they're on the 10 meter, now. 11 COMMISSIONER BATES: We're in a no -win 12 situation, it sounds like. And my thought is, cut 13 our losses and move on. Because, I'm afraid the 14 League is going you to cut you -all off, and then 15 where do we go from that point? 16 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Even if it's only a 50/50 17 chance of that happening, do you really want to roll 18 that set of dice? 19 COMMISSIONER BATES: No. 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I don't. 21 COMMISSIONER BATES: What would happen if the 22 League did pull the plug? 23 MR. MANTZARIS: We would have to -- we would -- 24 we would consider the case -- the City would 25 consider the case like a general eminent domain Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 32 1 action associated with a large stormwater project 2 that the City has done. So, we would work through 3 that, and the project costs would basically have to 4 pay for the acquisition of the land that was part of 5 the -- part of the Victory Point project. So, 6 that's how -- that's how it would be considered. 7 And it wouldn't -- the insurance company wouldn't be 8 involved in it. 9 In other words, if, at the time that the 10 project was done, all this had been already decided, 11 then the City would have said, we need this property 12 for our project. We're going to acquire the 13 property and we're going to pay you, property owner, 14 for access to your property. That's how -- we're 15 going to try to get back to that. Obviously, if we 16 had done it that way, the cost would have been a lot 17 less, for the City. But -- but, we don't have that. 18 COMMISSIONER BATES: We're past that. 19 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: We're past that. 20 MR. MANTZARIS: So, we would -- you know, 21 typically, when we work with eminent domain actions, 22 as Doug has pointed out, if that were to happen, 23 then we would quickly be trying to get with -- get 24 with the Plaintiff on it. Eminent domain actions, 25 they would require us to go to mediation. We'd try i Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 33 to go to mediation and we would try to work out a settlement. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And where do the funds come from, for the settlement? MR. MANTZARIS: I would imagine that, since this is property that's used as part of the stormwater project, the Victory Point project, it would possibly come out of whatever funds were available in the City stormwater funds, so we would be able to deal with that. Again, this would be -- looking back on it, I'm recreating it, and this would have been -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: That's going to be a heck of a budget amendment. MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we'd have to -- you know, we'd have to deal with it. But, I think where we are right now -- and, obviously, Doug's done a good job explaining to you where we are on it -- I did have a conversation with the adjuster from the League on this, and they are ripe to participate in a resolution or a settlement offer on this if the City is willing to contribute. I can't -- the adjuster didn't tell me how much the League would pay. But, they -- we're in this sort of window of, they're still in it, they're still paying Doug and Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 0m 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12 13 14 17 18 19 20 21 OxM 23 24 25 Page 34 his firm to basically do the work. They realize that, if -- you know, if the appeal goes one way or another, there might be coverage. If it goes the other way, there won't be coverage. But, the bottom line, right now, they're willing to potentially talk. I don't know whether we can put together a number -- Doug knows better than me, because he's dealt with them -- that the Plaintiff would take. To date, I think we've been to two mediations on this. MR. NOAH: Correct. Now, at the mediation, we did not offer what I would consider substantial money, though. MR. MANTZARIS: Or real money. MR. NOAH: Right. So -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: What was offered, Doug? MR. MANTZARIS: I want to say, $30,000. MR. NOAH: $30,000, something in that neighborhood. So, what I can tell you is what has been conveyed to me now. What has been conveyed to me is, we're not really interested in having a third mediation unless there is some offer that's extended now from the -- I say, the Defendant, because it Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 35 1 would probably be a combination of League and City 2 money. So, we want to see some money coming our way 3 before we even decide if we're going to get in the 4 room with you again. That's what they've conveyed 5 to me. I don't know if that's puffing, or what that 6 is. 7 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I have a number. 250. 8 Now, Michele is doing a lot of homework. 9 MAYOR MURRY: She's crunching. 10 COMMISSIONER PINES: Well, I'm on my phone, so 11 I'm trying to figure out the size of the property. I 12 But, there's a property over by the little Mexican 13 restaurant, there, that sold in July for $300,000. 14 It's considered a residential property. 15 COMMISSIONER BATES: Let me ask this, while 16 you're doing that. 17 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, yeah. You don't want to 18 be -- 19 COMMISSIONER PINES: I'm not -- 20 COMMISSIONER BATES: Say we throw out a low 21 number -- whether it's 300, whatever -- and they're 22 wanting a million, or two million, or -- what did 23 you -- how much? 24 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: He said, north of a 25 million. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 36 MR. DOAH: I said, north of a million. COMMISSIONER BATES: And they take offense to that, so to speak, and they decide to push this and go forward with it. Would we -- back to your point a while ago -- would we be on the hook, if we ended up losing, to pay for all their attorney fees and everything else? MR. NOAH: Yes. COMMISSIONER BATES: So, it would be more than a million? MR. NOAH: Yeah. So, here's the -- this is the way that I think the incentives come down. If it is -- let's say we offer them something that -- like -- I'll just make it easy. If we offer them like $100,000, or something, something that was really low, their attorneys' fees, right now -- I'm pretty confident that the lawyer who took it through Summary Judgment is somewhere in the 230, 240 range. The lawyer that they have hired to do the eminent domain proceeding, who -- and both of them are competent folks, so that's important. Because, when they go for their attorney fee award, the Court -- the Court will do one of two things. For the risks that they've taken, they'll either increase the hourly fee up to around 450 or 500 or 600 an hour, Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 37 or they'll give them a multiplier. So, I would say that Jay Small's fees -- currently, I think $50,000 is conservative, even though he's just made an appearance. But, just seeing how he's interacting with me, and how he's keeping me jumping, and so forth, and how active he's been, I know that those fees are running up. So, to come back, Commissioner, I think that -- sorry, I got sidetracked on the incentives. Just one more thing about the incentives. Let's assume that you lowball on the property value. So, they -- so, they think it's worth a half -a -million, and we want to say, well, it's worth $80,000, and, so, that's all we're going to go, and we go to an eminent domain proceeding. And do you know how this works, Dan? Maybe you can help me out on it. But, if -- if they get somewhere -- if they split that baby, then I think that they get their attorneys' fees, as well. MR. MANTZARIS: Well, if we were going to treat it like a true eminent domain, we would have to throw an offer out there. And then, if they go to trial and they beat -- and they beat our offer, then they get a value based on the difference. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 38 1 MR. MANTZARIS: They get their attorneys' fees, 2 plus they get a value based on how much they beat 3 our offer. Yeah, it's -- 4 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, it leaves us pretty 5 exposed. 6 MR. MANTZARIS: It -- if we -- 7 COMMISSIONER PINES: Very much so. 8 MR. MANTZARIS: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER BATES: i And I know this is going 10 i to be hard to answer. Any idea how much they have, 11 already, in attorneys' fees? 12 MR. NOAH: I -- I -- I think -- I think it's 13 somewhere in the 230, 240, range, for one person. 14 Another 50 for the other. So, I think it's in the 15 300,000 range. 16 COMMISSIONER BATES: And that's just attorneys' 17 fees. 18 COMMISSIONER PINES: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: It's crazy. 20 MR. NOAH: And that's the attorneys' fees. 21 And I'm not quite sure on their -- how much 22 work their experts have done, because we haven't 23 received expert reports. The -- the person that the 24 Judge relied on, whatever her fees are, we'll be 25 paying her, as well. And I'm sure that's in the Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 39 1 $20,000 range. 2 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And the beat goes on. 3 MR. BATES: We're just paying for everybody, at 4 this point. 5 COMMISSIONER PINES: We're here to make sure 6 this stuff never happens again. 7 MAYOR MURRY: Well, actually, we better have a 8 meeting, when something like that happens. 9 MR. MANTZARIS: I think that that's right. 10 MR. NOAH: I think that would be a good day, 11 with the League contributing to that, to soften that 12 up. 13 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Half -a -million? 14 MAYOR MURRY: Well, that's the figure I got in 15 my head. 16 COMMISSIONER BATES: Honestly, I'm thinking, at 17 least that. 18 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Half -a -million. But, you 19 won't give me 150. 20 MAYOR MURRY: There's a difference. They got 21 to prove that we did something wrong. 22 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, Doug, I think that I 23 really need to go on the official record, with this. 24 I -- I do not know Mr. Sprinkles. I think I 25 laid eyes on him once. I think he appeared in front Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 40 1 of the City Council once. 2 MR. MANTZARIS: That was before. 3 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: That was -- okay. But, I 4 do know two of his investor partners. 5 COMMISSIONER BATES: Um -hum. We all do. 6 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Okay? And I tossed that 7 250 out, not thinking about the attorneys' fees. 8 Because, I kind of suspect, if they could get out 9 with their underwear, they would take it and run. 10 One of the individuals is sorry he ever got 11 involved. The other one is not a greedy person, he 12 just got sucked up into what turned out to be a bad 13 deal. Neither of them are bad people. But, one is 14 a very well-known elected official, and the other 15 one is a very well-known business person. 16 COMMISSIONER PINES: Um -hum. i 17 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, I think that, if we 18 made a good faith, fair offer, they would take it. 19 COMMISSIONER BATES: I agree. But, what is 20 that fair number? 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Yes. That's what we need 22 to figure out. 23 COMMISSIONER BATES: Somewhere between five and 24 six? 25 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Do you agree with that? Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 41 1 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: No, I agree. It's got 2 to be five to six. 3 MR. MANTZARIS: I don't know. You threw out -- 4 you thought, $500,000. Are you talking about, 5 total, $500,000, land, plus attorneys' fees? 6 MR. NOAH: I think, if you got that, that would 7 be a very good settlement. If you get it. 8 MR. MANTZARIS: Okay. So -- so, I mean, we 9 would have to circle back with the League and find 10 out what the League is willing to contribute towards 11 a settlement like that, with the understanding that 12 that would probably be something that, if we could 13 convince them to take, we'd all say, great. 14 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I think that's the course 15 that I could support. 16 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: Yeah. 17 MR. MANTZARIS: But, I -- I think, part of our 18 issue, right now, is, we need to -- one of the 19 frustrating pieces that we see is that the League 20 has said, generically, we will participate. But, 21 they really haven't said what that means. 22 MR. NOAH: Right. Yeah. 23 MR. MANTZARIS: So, we can get some numbers 24 together, and we can see it. And then, at least we 25 can come back to it, and say, well, the League said Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 42 1 they're going to throw in $50,000, right? And, so, 2 if we want to go 500, the City is in for $450,000, 3 or more. 4 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Do you think there's any 5 chance of 50/50 between the League and the City? 6 MR. MANTZARIS: I -- I -- I don't know. I -- 7 we had talked generically or generally about the 8 attorneys' fee amount, and there was a discussion 9 about whether the League would possibly -- possibly 10 absorb the attorneys' fee piece. But, that was sort 11 of a discussion that we kind of had when we were 12 talking about it. So. I don't know if that was 13 still -- and that was when the attorneys' fees were 14 probably at a lower level, too. So, I think, if we 15 could get the League up to that level, that would 16 kind of -- 17 j COMMISSIONER PURVIS: It's only going to get ii 18 worse. So, as far as I'm concerned, move forward. 19 COMMISSIONER BATES: We need to move forward on I 20 this as quick as possible. 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Yep. 22 COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BATES: I don't want to wait 24 another two weeks, for our next Council meeting, to 25 have another -- Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 2 3 :! 5 6 7 8 9 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 43 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, we don't necessarily have to do it that way. COMMISSIONER BATES: -- closed door. MR. MANTZARIS: We've got a good -- I think we've got a good read as to how the Council wants to do it. We're going to have to -- while Doug's sort of holding everything at bay, we're going to have to work with the League and see what they -- what they want to put on it. And then, I think we have an understanding that the City Council would consider putting -- COMMISSIONER PURVIS: We've got to cut our losses. COMMISSIONER PINES: Yeah. COMMISSIONER BATES: How much did you say they were asking? MR. NOAH: For -- for the property alone, they're asking for -- I'm a little bit confused on the number, myself. Because, when I did his math, I didn't -- I came up with a number like $800,000. But, what he -- what the expert concludes, from their standpoint, is like a million -- I want to say a million -three, or something like that. So, it's a big number. MAYOR MURRY: But, he tried to sell it for 80. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 44 1 MR. NOAH: And he was going to sell it for 80. 2 MAYOR MURRY: And couldn't sell it for 80. 3 MR. NOAH: Twice. 4 COMMISSIONER BATES: Would we be insulting 5 them, by 500? I mean, you mentioned 8- -- 6 MR. MANTZARIS: Well, I would suggest doing 7 that. Because, we were at $30,000. 8 COMMISSIONER BATES: That was the original 9 offer? Okay. 10 MR. MANTZARIS: And, so, I think, if you -- I 11 think, if you could get -- and I'm not saying that 12 it would resolve for that. But, I think, if the 13 City, with the League, could put together a package 14 that's close to 500,000, I think that would get us 15 started to initiate discussions. 16 MR. NOAH: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER BATES: Okay. 18 MR. MANTZARIS: And that might move things to a 19 resolution. And we could always, you know, tie it 20 into that. 21 MAYOR MURRY: Yeah. Well, that covers, what, 22 300 for attorney fees and another two. I mean, 23 that's more than what it's worth. 24 MR. NOAH: I don't think they're walking away 25 from their attorneys' fees, right now. I can just Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 45 1 tell you, from a layperson, you said $80,000. But, 2 from a layperson, when I walk by the property, the 3 first time I saw, it was hard to imagine that that 4 was worth a million dollars. But, I'm not in real 5 estate. 6 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: I don't know why. But, 7 I sort of think I remember, one of the parties, 8 whether it was Sprinkles, the night that he 9 addressed the Council, or whoever. But, $100,000 10 sticks in my mind as to what they paid for that 11 property. 12 COMMISSIONER PINES: I'm looking it up. 13 MR. NOAH: I thought he paid like $26,000. You 14 mean, Mr. Sprinkles, when he bought from Mantana? 15 MR. MANTZARIS: Mansella. 16 MR. NOAH: Mansella? I want to say it was like 17 $26,000, or something. It was way low. 18 COMMISSIONER PINES: It's low. Let me -- I'm 19 almost there. 20 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Why would he have two 21 other partners, for a $26,000 purchase? 22 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: That's a good question. 23 MR. MANTZARIS: Okay. So, I think we've 24 reached where we want to go. We're going to have to 25 work hard, and we wanted to make sure that you were Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 46 1 aware of it. We mostly wanted to make sure that you 2 understood the exposure piece, and I think you 3 unfortunately do. 4 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: So, this is never going 5 in front of a magistrate? 6 COMMISSIONER PINES: 27.5. And then, a 7 quitclaim deed was done on it in 2019. It's showing 8 they bought it in 2011 -- 9 MR. NOAH: A quitclaim to whom? 10 COMMISSIONER PINES: -- for 27.5. 11 MR. NOAH: Right, that's for the 27.5. 12 COMMISSIONER PINES: And a quitclaim deed -- 13 MR. NOAH: To whom? Does it say? 14 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: How about to the two 15 investors? 16 COMMISSIONER PINES: I hate doing this on my 17 phone. It's so small. 18 MR. NOAH: I wish I had better news. I'm 19 sorry. 20 MAYOR MURRY: It is what it is. 21 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: It is what it is, you're 22 right. 23 COMMISSIONER BATES: What kind of time frame do 24 you think we're on, for this attorney getting paid? 25 MR. NOAH: That's what you're trying to turn Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 Page 47 1 off. 2 COMMISSIONER BATES: Right. 3 MR. NOAH: Right now, he did a public records 4 ad request on the City, where we just provided him, 5 I don't know how many documents it is. It's like 6 he's reinventing the wheel and redoing the learning 7 curve. And, so, I know he's in his office reading 8 paper all the time. So, you're right, time is of 9 the essence. And to get that meter shut down, if we 10 want to do this, we want to do it fairly quickly. 11 MAYOR MURRY: As quick as possible. 12 MR. NOAH: It may take a little bit of time to 13 work things out through the League. I know that 14 there's a hierarchal process that they have to 15 follow, too, to get authority. 16 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Sure. 17 MR. NOAH: I don't know exactly what it is. 18 But, Dan, we'll have to work on it. 19 MR. MANTZARIS: I'm just going to call and ask. 20 COMMISSIONER ENTSUAH: That's the quickest way 21 to do it. 22 COMMISSIONER PURVIS: Well, I do know that Doug 23 is absolutely right. There is a pecking order, when 24 you start talking about that kind of money, in any 25 insurance company. Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 0 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 `z"M 25 Page 48 MR. NOAH: Right. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: And it's not some $75,000-a-year adjuster that makes the decision. It's probably a Senior Vice -President -- COMMISSIONER PINES: Right. COMMISSIONER PURVIS: -- or the President. MR. NOAH: It's a committee, actually, that -- MR. MANTZARIS: Okay. Anything else? MAYOR MURRY: Do you need anything else? MR. MANTZARIS: No, I think I got enough directions. I appreciate it very much. MAYOR MURRY: You got enough directions, which way to go? MR. MANTZARIS: All right. So, we're concluded. We're going to walk out and we're not talk to each other about this stuff, right? MR. NOAH: Nice meeting you folks. COURT REPORTER: Do you want me to type these? MR. MANTZARIS: I need both of them, yes. COURT REPORTER: Both of them? Okay. Thank you. (The closed session concluded at 9:52 p.m.) Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 49 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF ORANGE ) I, Diane C. Roberts, Notary Public, State of Florida, was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings, and that the transcript, Pages 3 through 48, is a true and accurate record of my stenographic notes. I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, or employee, or attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this loth day of November 2021. )taia C Rgtti�-- Diane C. Roberts, FPR Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [& - attorneys] & 2:3 1 1 1:3 100 16:24 100,000 26:18,20 26:24 36:15 45:9 loth 49:17 12 12:13 21:17 1200 2:3 150 39:19 1920's 7:21 1st 1:15 2 2 1:4 20 12:4 18:4 20,000 39:1 201 2:3 2011 5:8 46:8 2017 6:23 10:19 20:10,12 2019 46:7 2021 1:12 20:12 49:17 22778 49:20 230 36:18 38:13 230,000 13:8 240 36:18 38:13 250 35:7 40:7 26 1:12 26,000 45:13,17,21 27.5. 46:6,10,11 3 3 49:9 30,000 34:18,19 44:7 300 35:2144:22 300,000 35:13 38:15 32801 2:4 34712 1:16 4 1:5 40s 7:14 450 23:9 36:25 450,000 42:2 48 49:9 5 5 1:6 50 38:14 50,000 37:3 42:1 50/50 31:16 42:5 500 36:25 42:2 44:5 500,000 41:4,5 44:14 560 23:9 6 600 36:25 685 1:15 7 759000 48:3 8 8 44:5 80 43:25 44:1,2 80,000 27:3 37:13 45:1 800,000 43:20 9 9:02 1:13 9:03 4:7 9:52 1:13 48:22 a able 5:9 12:7 33:10 absolutely 47:23 absorb 42:10 access 6:14 9:1 12:5 16:19 18:4,11 19:6,7,8,11 32:14 accurate 49:9 acquire 9:20 32:12 acquired 9:23 acquisition 32:4 acting 1:9 action 32:149:15 49:16 actions 32:21,24 active 37:6 ad 47:4 addressed 45:9 adjacent 9:20 adjuster 33:19,23 48:3 aerates 18:17 afraid 31:13 agenda 4:19 5:2 ago 36:5 agree 19:10 22:6 40:19,25 41:1 ahead 4:8 5:6 15:19 24:3 air 22:21 allow 22:16 amendment 33:14 amount 13:15 42:8 answer 16:15 38:10 anticipate 12:1,2 21:6 anticipation 13:1,4 anybody 5:115:14 anymore 30:3 anyway 17:24 18:11 28:6 apartments 24:12 apparatus 19:7 appeal 14:7,8,9 15:10,12 28:15 34:2 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 50 appealable 14:15 appeals 19:3 appearance 37:4 appeared 39:25 appellate 14:11 appreciate 48:11 approve 21:2 approved 19:18 21:1 approximately 5:16 13:8 area 5:15 6:2 7:19 8:8,13,15 9:12,14 9:23 12:4 17:11 argue 18:9 21:4 arguing 12:2 argument 8:20,20 8:22 9:8,16 10:10 10:11 11:25 18:12 20:24 21:6 arguments 10:10 20:8 arrow 29:8 articulate 26:16 aside 20:14 asked 8:1 asking 43:16,18 asserts 8:10 associated 12:17 14:10 22:17 32:1 assume 16:2019:6 28:3 37:10 assumes 20:4 assuming 19:21 assurance 14:12 attendance 1:3 4:5 attorney 1:8 36:6 36:22 44:22 46:24 49:13,15 attorneys 13:6,7 36:16 37:18 38:1 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [attorneys - comparable] 38:11,16,20 40:7 believes 7:22 41:5 42:8,10,13 bell 24:6 44:25 benefit 10:18 authority 47:15 best 10:1612:16 authorized 49:7 15:12 19:18 20:23 available 33:9 better 7:1 10:7 31:2 avenue 16:20 award 36:22 aware 46:1 b baby 37:18 back 7:21 11:5 16:11 20:10 23:6 32:15 33:11 36:4 37:8 41:9,25 background 4.20 26:25 bad 14:1,3 25:5 40:12,13 based 31:6 37:24 38:2 basically 3:25 7:1 8:9 10:3 19:24 20 32:3 34:1 bat 5:3 bates 1:3 3:11 15:16 17:18,22 22:11 24:13,17,2 24:25 25:2 31:11 31:19,21 32:18 35:15,20 36:2,9 38:9,16 39:3,16 40:5,19,23 42:19 42:23 43:3,15 44:, 44:8,17 46:23 47:: battle 27:7 bay 43:7 beat 37:23,23 38:2 39:2 believe 26:17 34:8 39:7 46:18 big 21:16 22:22 43:24 bills 13.12 bit 7:17 11:16 27:15 43:18 47:12 blocks 19:7,8 board 13:6 22:22 bottom 34:4 bought 5:7 45:14 46:8 bounds 11:11 briefed 10:2 briefing 28:17 bring 9:10 7 broad 7:17 :3 broker 12:23 brought 30:6 budget 33:14 buildable 22:4,6 building 9:2,2 2 22:10 built 20:5,17 business 19:15 20:21 21:5 40:15 buying 5:23 6:1 c Page 51 13:15 14:3,19 29:4 36:12 37:8 41:25 29:5 31:5,9,24,25 comes 6:21 20:2,17 cases 6:3 15:9,11 comfortable 5:4 i certificate 49:1 coming 28:7 35:2 certify 49:12 comment 10:14 chance 31:17 42:5 comments 16:17 change 19:25 commission 21:2 changed 20:2 commissioner 3:13 charge 23:7 26:5 3:16,23 15:16,18 charges 13:12 15:2016:3,6,9,16 circle 41:9 17:1,4,8,13,17,18 cited 15:8 17:20,22,2318:3,7 city 1:8,9,14 3:9 ! 18:20 21:22 22:3,5 4:15 6:6 7:10,13,21 22:8,9,11 23:20,22 8:23,23 9:3,5,13 23:25 24:7,8,11,12 11:14 14:5 19:1,10 24:13,17,20,22,25 28:7 29:2,14,22 25:1,2,3,12,16,22 30:21 31:24 32:2 27:8,10 28:2,10 32:11,17 33:9,22 30:11,16,24 31:11 35:140:142:2,5 31:16,19,20,21 43:10 44:13 47:4 32:18,19 33:3,13 city's 8:5 9:15 34:17 35:7,10,15 10:10 12:3 18:12 35:19,20,24 36:2,9 j claim 27:19,20.21 37:8,25 38:4,7,9,16 27:22 28:8 30:2,6,7 38:18,19 39:2,5,13 30:9 39:16,18,22 40:3,5 clarification 12:9 40:6,16,17,19,21 clear 9:7 14:22 40:23,25 41:1,14 26:20 41:16 42:4,17,19 clerk 4:15,15 42:21,22,23 43:3 clermont 1:14,16 43 :12,14,15 44:4,8 3 :9 5 :7 44:17 45 :6,12,18 close 44:14 45:20,22 46:4,6,10 c 17 1:17 2:1 3:1 49:6 closed 1:1 3:5,12 46:12,14,16,21,23 4:21 43:3 48:22 47:2,16,20,22 48:2 calculated 12:15 code 9:617:15 48:5,6 call 47:19 coin 15:12 committee 48:7 called 9:2212:15 collection 23:5 company 27:10 case 3:9,19 4:20,22 combination 35:1 28:7 32:7 47:25 5:5 7:25 9:18 10:7 come 8:6 16:11 comparable 26:11 10:15 11:7,8 12:13 17:4 21:15 33:4,8 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [comparables - dimensions] comparables 20:6 control 11:15 20:15 26:10 conversation 27:13 compensation 13:3 29:17 33:19 competent 36:21 convey 8:5 complex 25:10 conveyed 7:22 component 20:23 34:22,22 35:4 concerned 42:18 convince 41:13 concise 15:6 correct 16:1,518:6 concluded 48:15,22 34:12 concludes 43:21 correctly 15:11 condemnation cost 23:3 30:19 10:24 11:1 30:6 32:16 condo 24:19 condos 24:14 conference 1:15 confident 36:17 confidentially 4:16 conflict 29:12 30:22 confused 11:18 27:15 43:18 confuses 20:10,11 connected 49:15 Conner 3:21 connor 14:22 consequences 4:21 10:21 11:8 conservative 37:3 consider 31:24,25 34:13 43:10 considered 32:6 35:14 construction 23:4,6 contemplated 23:10 continuance 13:21 continues 29:24 contribute 33:22 41:10 contributing 39 costs 22:17 23:4,6,8 32:3 council 40:1 42:24 43:5,10 45:9 counsel 3:10 49:13 49:15 :11 crazy cross 10:9 crunching 35:9 crystalized 6:8 curb 16:22,24 17:10,12,14,21 current 4:2113:16 23:19 currently 18:5 30:1 37:3 curve 47:7 cut 16:22,2517:14 17:21 18:11 30:11 30:13 31:1,12,14 43:12 d d 3:1 damages 12:14,14 26:20 counterintuitive dan 29:4,4,7,18 11:17 37:16 47:18 countervailing dan's 29:2 11:24 daniel 1.8 counts 14:16,16 county 9:4,5 49:4 couple 5:18 course 12:1813:5 19:9 41:14 court 4:7,9,11 6:3 11:5,18,19 12:9,12 13:23 14:15 15:5 19:2 24:2 28:13 29:23 36:22,23 48:18,20 cover 23:8 29:21 coverage 27:18,24 28:4,4 29:24 30:2 30:13 34:3,4 covered 30:9 covers 44:21 38:19 darren 24:7 25:16 darren's 24:9 25:14 date 1:12 12:19 13:7,24,25 34:10 dated 49:17 davidoff 1:918:21 23:21 day 39:10 49:17 deadline 14:10,11 deal 33:10,16 40:13 dealt 34:9 dean 2:3 debate 21:17 decide 14:2 31:6 35:3 36:3 i decided 10:15 14:20 32:10 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 52 ecision 48:3 deed 5:20 6:16 46:7 46:12 deep 16:13 defend 14:19 defendant 34:25 defense 3:10 30:15 30:19 1 degree 22:6 demo'd 17:18 demonstrate 9:11 i denied 27:21,23 denies 8:2 depend 19:5 depicted 8:13,15 12:3 depiction 5:25 description 11:12 descriptions 11:13 design 25:20 designated 7:19 designs 23:17,19 detail 16:12 28:21 details 30:20 determine 12:13 13:3,17 21:18 determining 19:23 developed 6:12 development 7:5 19:15 diane 1:17 49:6,21 dice 31:18 difference 37:24 39:20 different 5:2 9:25 10:22 18:19 20:13 21:2 27:2 30:25 differentiates 29:3 dimensions 21:24 22:1,4 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [direction - fl] direction 29:7 directions 5:12 48:11,12 directly 6:20 30:22 discussing 14:17 discussion 3:3 4:24 42:8,11 discussions 44:15 dispute 5:16 6:4 14:13 16:13 29.13 disputed 6:7 9:14 disputes 12:17 district 19:2,15 20:21 21:5 dnoah 2:4 doah 36:1 documents 47:5 doing 35:8,16 44:6 46:16 dollar 26:10,14 dollars 12:2515:21 45:4 domain 11:412:12 13:10 28:15,19 29:20,21 31:25 32:21,24 36:20 37:15,21 donut 21:8 door 43:3 doubts 23:3 doug 3:10,19,24 32:22 33:25 34:8 34:17 39:22 47:22 doug's 3:18 33:17 43:6 douglas 2:2 drawn 7:21 8:13 dreggors 13:4 20:2 22:21 dried 16:6 drive 18:1 drml 2:4 dry 9:18,22,23 due 13:3 duplex 17:1719:19 20:4 duplexes 26:11 20:7 l duties 29:1 e e 2:1,1,3 3:1,1 easement 18:13 easily 17:11 easy 36:14 ebo 1:5 education 3:17 egress 5:2411:21 eight 26:14 either 14:2515:10 19:19 36:24 elected 40:14 elevators 22:18 eminent 11:312:11 13:10 28:15,19 29:20,21 31:25 32:21,24 36:19 37:15,21 employee 49:13,14 enactment 7:15,15 7:23 encroached 8:16 encroaching 7:8 encroachment 12:3 27:6,6 ended 36:5 enforcement 9:6 17:15 english 4:14 enters 28:14 entertain 4:24 Page 53 entire 15:22 16:7,8 facts 10:16 entitled 10:813:6 fair 40:18,20 entsuah 1:5 32:19 fairly 47:10 35:24 38:19 41:1 ! faith 40:18 41:16 45:22 47:20 familiar 25:7 j equally 13:5 far 42:18 esquire 2:2 fast 6:23 essence 47:9 feasible 26:7 estate 45:5 fee 36:22,25 42:8 estimate 12:23 42:10 estimation 15:6 feel 4:24 5:4 20:1 everybody 4:4 39:3 i 26:19 28:20 everybody's 4:18 fees 13:7,7 36:6,16 evidence 10:4,4,6 37:2,7,19 38:1,11 10:12,14 27:22 38:17,20,24 40:7 exactly 12:10 27:20 41:5 42:13 44:22 29:2 47:17 44:25 existed 16:23 feet 18:4 20:16,16 expense 3:6 fell 27:3 expert 8:14 19:8,20 fifth 15:4 19:2 23:1,126:1,23,24 figure 35:1139:14 38:23 43:21 40:22 experts 12:18 filed 10:9 14:7,12 13:18,2019:3 filter 7:6 21:17 38:22 final 14:14 explained 25:8 finalized 12:20 explaining 33:18 finally 14:15 exposed 38:5 financially 49:16 exposure 13:19 find 11:18,20 41:9 15:14 16:12,14 finding 10:20 19:1 18:24,24 19:5,9,13 findings 11:2 26:22 27:12 30:18 finished 4:13 46:2 firm 34:1 extended 34:24 first 8:11,12,22 extends 6:5 11:4 12:8 13:17 eyeballed 16:19 19:4 21:5,20 45:3 eyes 39:25 five 10:2215:8 f 22:23 25:24 40:23 f 1:8 41:2 fact 8:6 fl 2:4 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [floor - insurance] floor 1:15 25:11 floors 21:13 22:17 22:18 24:23,24 26:5,6 florida 1:16,17 9:16 49:3,7 folks 26:4 36:21 48:17 follow 4:19 5:2 22:24 47:15 follows 9:21 foot 12:4 26:11,15 foregoing 49:8 form 10:2 formalistic 9:9 format 22:24 forth 26:12 37:6 forward 5:6 6:23 36:4 42:18,19 four 6:2 10:22 21:12 22:17,18 26:5 fourplex 22:7 fpr 49:21 frame 46:23 free 4:24 friend 6:11,11 frivolousness 15:7 front 11:10 16:18 39:25 46:5 frustrating 41:19 full 16:3,4 funds 33:3,8,9 further 17:16 49:12 Lfuture 4:23 11:9 - g g 3:1 gain 12:5 31:5 geared 13:18,20 T general 31:25 generally 42:7 generically 41:20 42:7 getting 13:15 46:24 give 4:2 19:25 21:20 25:5 37:1 39:19 given 10:20 23:12 25:19 gives 14:1,18 giving 26:15 go 4:8,11 5:6 8:17 11:5,7,10 13 :22,23 14:23 15:19 16:12 18:23 24:3 28:21 31:15 32:25 33:1 36:4,22 37:14,14 37:22 39:23 42:2 45:24 48:13 goes 6:13 7:18 22:18 34:2,3 39:2 going 3:8,24 4:23 5:9 6:16 7:6 11:7 11:25 12:9,12,14 13:2,18 15:2,10 16:1,11,12,13,14 18:8,10,25 19:21 20:1,1,2,18,24 21:4 21:6,18 22:7,13,22 24:14 25:7,19 26:7 28:18 30:18,21 31:8,14 32:12,13 32:15 33:13 35:3 37:14,20 38:9 42:1 42:17 43:6,7 44:1 45:24 46:4 47:19 48:15 good 7:24 8:21 13:11 14:1 27:22 33:17 39:10 40:18 41:7 43:4,5 45:22 gotcha 25:3 gotten 29:1 granted 13:21 21:10 Page 54 highlighted 5:14,15 hired 12:21 13:4 36:19 hires 28:22 hold 4:15 grass 17:7,12 25:1 holding 43:7 25:2 homework 35:8 great 41:13 greedy 40:11 guess 16:2217:23 29:6,7 31:1 guy 20:12 guys 24:15 h half 22:9 37:12 39:13,18 hand 27:17 handling 3:21,25 happen 18:25 31:21 32:22 happening 31:17 happens 39:6,8 hard 38:10 45:3,25 hate 46:16 he'll 13:5 20:3 22:23 head 39:15 hear 12:13 heard 18:18 23:12 I 23:16 hearing 13:1,20,22 j 13:24,2514:23 heavy 31:8 heck 33:13 height 21:11 help 37:16 helps 7:6 hey 30:17 hierarchal 47:14 highest 12:1619:17 20:22 Veritext Legal Solutions honest 18:17 27:16 honestly 39:16 hook 36:5 hour 36:25 hourly 36:25 house 17:15,16,18 housing 8:25 huge 11:24 22:20 hum 12:22 18:7 22:3 24:25 40:5,16 i idea 26:6 38:10 imagine 33:5 45:3 immediate 13:25 important 5:18 26:1 36:21 incentives 36:12 37:9,10 including 29:5 incorporated 13:9 increase 36:24 individuals 40:10 inflates 20:11,12 information 25:6 29:18 ingress 5:2411:21 initially 12:21 initiate 44:15 ins 4:1 installed 22:19 insulting 44:4 insurance 28:6 32:7 47:25 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [interacting - marvin] interacting 37:5 interest 28:23 interested 34:23 49:16 interpreted 15:11 interrupt 4:25 inverse 10:2411:1 30:5 investor 6:10 40:4 investors 46:15 involved 27:11 32:8 40:11 issue 10:15 14:17 14:19 15:6 19:13 21:3 26:8,9 27:5 28:17 41:18 issued 9:3,5 issuing 9:4 it'll 15:3 j jay 13:13,14 37:2 jim 1:4 job 7:25 33:18 john 3:21 johnson's 24:7 25:16 judge 10:5,6,12,12 11:11 38:24 judge's 10:2019:1 judgment 10:3,8 13:9 36:18 july 35:13 jump 27:8 jumping 37:6 jurisdictions 7:18 jurors 12:13 jury 21:17 k keep 20:22 keeping 37:6 kind 6:17 8:19 9:21 10:5,25 11:18 15:1 18:11 19:16 21:8 22:24 23:2 27:23 29:13 30:8 31:4 40:8 42:11,16 46:23 47:24 know 4:10 5:9 13:12 14:8,25 17:24 18:20 19:13 21:8,24 22:21 23:16 26:23,25 29:15 30:5,7,10,15 31:4 32:20 33:15 34:2,7 35:5 37:7,15 38:9 39:24 40:4 41:3 42:6,12 44:19 45:6 47:5,7,13,17 47:22 knowledgeable 5:4 known 40:14,15 knows 4:134:8 1 lack 31:1 laid 39:25 lake 5:10,25 7:20 18:17 21:12,13 22:10 27:5,6,25 lakefront 16:7 land 6:11,12,13,14 9:24 23 :14,15,17 25:20 32:4 41:5 large 13:5 32:1 latest 23:12 29:17 law 10:8 law.com 2:4 lawton 2:3 lawyer 13:10,11,11 13:12 36:17,19 lawyers layperson lead 4:1 league 2 29:11,14,16,17,19 30:1,10,13,21 31:14,22 33:20,23 35:1 39:11 41:9,10 41:19,25 42:5,9,15 43:8 44:13 47:13 league's 14:6 29:24 learning 47:6 leaves 38:4 legal 8:10,12,20,22 9:16 10:22 letting 30:9 level 25:9 42:14,15 levels 31:1 liability 14:19,20 15:15 18:24 lies 11:13 line 7:9 11:21 34:5 lines 28:1,8 literally 16:21 litigation 1:13:5,6 3:7,12 4:16 little 7:1711:16 17:16 27:15 35:12 43:18 47:12 local 7:18 located 7:19 location 1:1412:6 logical 27:18 long 15:8 29:25 longer 30:14 look 23:2,3,4 looking 26:10 33:11 45:12 looks 6:13,22 20:16 lose 14:11,12 Page 55 28:23 losing 36:6 45:1,2 loss 11:2412:24,24 19:23 8:22,24 losses 31:13 43:13 lost 23:22 lot 3:16 5:7 6:5 15:7 16:22 18:1 25:12 32:16 35:8 lots 5:14 7:8 27:13 low 35:20 36:16 45:17,18 lowball 37:11 lower 26:4 42:14 loyalties 29:2 lumber 23:20 in ma'am 18:6 magistrate 46:5 maintenance 22:19 making 10:918:2 manager 1:9 mansella 45:15,16 mantana 45:14 mantzaris 1:8 3:3 3:14,18,24 7:3 12:22 24:15 29:9 31:23 32:20 33:5 33:15 34:15,18 35:17 37:20 38:1,6 38:8 39:9 40:2 41:3 41:8,17,23 42:6 43 :1,4 44:6,10,18 45:15,23 47:19 48: 8,10,14,19 map 5:18,21,22 8:12 12:4 marketplace 24:10 24:11 markets 20:13 marvin 12:21 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [math - original] math 43:19 matter 3:710:8 matters 4:16 mayor 1:715:24 17:10,16 22:13 24:10 35:9 39:7,14 39:20 43:25 44:2 44:21 46:20 47:11 48:9,12 mean 14:5 22:1 41:8 44:5,22 45:14 meaning 11:23 means 11:2213:13 41:21 mediation 32:25 33:1 34:12,24 mediations 34:10 meeting 3:4 4:5 26:21 27:14 39:8 42:24 48:17 meetings 14:2 meets 11:11 mentioned 16:16 44:5 messes 20:9 messing 26:19 meter 14:4,5,6 31:10 47:9 method 19:22 mexican 35:12 michele 1:615:19 35:8 million 12:2515:21 16:2,10 20:19 22:23 25:24,24,24 26:24 35:22,22,25 36:1,10 37:12 39:13,18 43:22,23 45:4 mind 20:22 45:10 minneola 5:10,11 5 :24 6:6,14,15 7:7 16:20 21:13 minute 13:19 29:20 misunderstanding 28:25 moment 20:14 money 20:3 34:14 34:15 35:2,2 47:24 montrose 1:15 23:25 24:5,21 monument 8:17 morgan 2:3 motion 10:2 motions 10:9 move 5:6 9:19 15:15 19:10 31:13 42:18,19 44:18 moved 12:7 18:16 multiplier 37:1 murry 1:715:24 17:10,16 22:13 24:10 35:9 39:7,14 39:20 43:25 44:2 44:21 46:20 47:11 48:9,12 n n 2:1 3:1 name 7:1 13:13 19:20 names 4:4 necessarily 17:22 43:1 need 3:16 13:17 29:15 32:11 39:23 40:21 41:18 42:19 48:9,19 negotiating 15:1 neighborhood 34:20 neither 40:13 never 7:11 8:16 29:6 30:7 39:6 46:4 new 13:9 19:15 22:16 news 46:18 nice 7:5 48:17 night 45:8 noah 2:2 4:4,8,10 7:4 12:23 16:1,5,8 16:11,24 17:2,6,9 17:25 18:6,8,23 21:25 22:15 23:23 24:4,24 25:4,14,18 25:23 27:9,13 28:3 28:12 29:10 30:12 30:25 34:12,16,19 36:8,11 38:12,20 39:10 41:6,22 43:17 44:1,3,16,24 45:13,16 46:9,11 46:13,18,25 47:3 47:12,17 48:1,7,17 north 12:2516:1,9 20:19 35:24 36:1 notary 49:6 notes 4:14 49:10 notice 14:8 november 49:17 nuances 30:4 number 13:519:12 20:18,18 21:15 22:22 23:8 26:16 34:8 35:7,21 40:20 43:19,20,24 numbers 22:20 41:23 0 o 3:1 objections 5:5 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 56 obstruction 18:15 obviously 4:24 32:15 33:17 occasions 27:2 occurred 9:13 october 1:12 offense 36:2 offer 33:2134:13 34:24 36:13,14 37:22,23 38:3 40:18 44:9 offered 34:17 office 47:7 official 39:23 40:14 offing 28:16 offset 11:24 okay 3:3,23 4:10 5:5,17 6:3,8,20,24 11:4,25 15:13 17:1 17:8 18:8,24 19:19 19:22 20:8,19,21 24:11,15 25:3,25 27:23 28:1,2,22,23 29:3,18,24 30:14 37:25 40:3,6 41:8 44:9,17 45:23 48:8 48:20 old 27:6 once 9:7,22,23 10:17 23:5 29:1 39:25 40:1 ongoing 3:7 opening 16:17 opportunities 22:15 orange 49:4 order 14:1415:7,7 23:7 47:23 orient 5:8 original 44:8 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [orlando - pump] orlando outs 4:2 outside overly 7 overrule overrule overturn owned 7:118:3,4 owner 32:13 owners 9:19 ownership 9:23 10:1 owns 6:5 7:16 8:8 8:10,18 9:11 10:19 p p 2:1,1 3:1 p.a. 2:3 p.m. 1:13,13 48:22 package 44:13 pages 15:8 49:9 paid 28:5 45:10,13 46:24 paper 47:8 parcels 6:24 parking 25:12,14 part 6:4 20:21 32:4 32:5 33:6 41:17 participate 33:20 41:20 particular 5:21 9:12,18 particularly 6.10 parties 10:111:10 13:16,22 14:13 45:7 49:13,14 partners 3:19 40:4 45:21 pattern 8:6,23 pay 29:11 30:14,18 30:19 32:4,13 33:24 36:6 d 2:4 25:6 paying 3 39:3 9:14 pecking :17 pejorative 29:23 pending 19:2 people 2 ed 15:3,3 40:13 3:25 38:25 31:15 32:5 33:7 47:23 6:18 28:15 1:18 24:2 percent 16:24 permits 9:2,3,4 person 19:20 20:3 38:13,23 40:11,15 phone 35:10 46:17 piece 6:1142:10 46:2 pieces 41:19 pine 2:3 pines 1:615:20 16:3,6,9 17:17 18:3 18:7 21:22 22:3,8 24:8,12,20 25:1,3 25:22 35:10,19 38:7,18 39:5 40:16 42:22 43:14 45:12 45:18 46:6,10912 46:16 48:5 place 13:25 plaintiff 7:2410:23 32:24 34:9 plaintiffs 10:11 12:18 plaintiffs 12:21 plan 11:5 planning 1:15 plat 7:21 plug 31:22 plus 23:17 25:20 38:2 41:5 point 6:25 7:3,4,11 7:12 15:2 17:25 18:1 23:10,12,23 24:4 25:8 28:10 36:4 39:4 pointed 32:22 pointing 29:8 policy 30:8 portion 15:23,24 16:7 position 9:1515:1 29:16,19 positions 9:25 possible 3:6 42:20 47:11 possibly 33:8 42:9 42:9 posture 29:25 30:10 31:3 potential 16:22 potentially 7:8 34:5 practical 8:9 practice 8:23 practices 8:219:13 pragmatic 23:2 pre 24:19 preserved 28:17 president 48:4,6 pretty 14:22 21:25 22:1 36:17 38:4 price 25:23 31:8 prices 20:12,13 26:3,4 prior 16:17 22:12 22:14,15 27:14 private 8:24 probably 3:15 19:14 22:24 26:7 35:1 41:12 42:14 48:4 problem 27:4 proceeding 11:4 12:12 28:19 29:21 36:20 37:15 Page 57 proceedings 13:10�! 49:8 process 11:3 47:14 professional 1:17 progress 11:7,8 progression 4:23 project 23:10,13 24:18 25:19 32:1,3 32:5,10,12 33:7,7 promise 16:14 30:17 property 5:12,13 5:16,20,23 6:1,18 6:21,22 7:16,22 8:2 8:3,11,16,24 9:1,6 9:19,20,21 10:17 10:19,21 11:2,13 11:14,20,22,23 15:22 16:4,4,7,8,18 17:19 18:4 19:11 19:16,17 20:5,10 21:8,9,19,23 23 :11 24:5 25:17 27:1 28:14 32:11,13,13 32:14 33:6 35:11 35:12,14 37:11 43:17 45:2,11 prove 14:25 39:21 provide 4:2019:10 provided 4:15 47:4 public 6:16 29:9 47:3 49:6 puffing 35:5 pull 17:11 31:22 pulled 16:18,21 17:3,6 pulling 20:7 pulls 6:13 pump 12:6,618:14 19:6,10 Veritext Legal Solutions 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [purchase - see] purchase 23:18 45:21 purchased 5:19 6:10 purchases 6:1 purchasing 16:17 purvis 1:4 3:11,13 3:16,23 15:18 16:16 17:1,4,8,13 17:20,23 18:20 22:5,9 23:20,22,25 24:7,11 25 :12,16 27:8,10 28:2,10 30:11,24 31:16,20 33:3,13 34:17 35:7 37:25 38:4 39:2,13 39:18,22 40:3,6,17 40:21,25 41:14 42:4,17,21 43 :12 45:6,20 46:4,14,21 47:16,22 48:2,6 puryear 12:21,24 19:21 22:25 push 36:3 put 10:6,13,23 12:24 13:5,24 18:10 20:8 21:11 21:14,19 22:22 30:15 34:7 43:9 44:13 puts 10:4 29:12 putting 13:14 26:19 43:11 quadplex 19:19,22 20:17 quadplexes 26:12 question 15:18,20 16:15 21:23 27:19 28:11 45:22 questions 5:315:14 redoing 47:6 quick 21:22 42:20 reduce 19:9 47:11 reinventing 47:6 quickest 47:20 relative 49:12,14 quickly 32:23 reliction 9:2210:15 47:10 relied 38:24 quitclaim 46:7,9,12 remainder 26:18 quite 18:18 38:21 1 remains 11:15 r remember 3:21 r 2:1 3:1 range 36:18 38:13 38:15 39:1 rate 22:2129:10 raw 23 :14,15,17 25:20 reached 45:24 read 30:7 43:5 reading 47:7 ready 13:15,23 real 7:5 20:3 34:15 45:4 realize 34:1 really 8:11 10:14 10:14 11:3 31:17 34:23 36:16 39:23 41:21 realm 28:14 reason 8:917:13 reasonableness 20:23 reasons 5:19 8:10 8:12 receded 10:17,18 received 38:23 record 4:8,11 10:4 10:6 39:23 49:10 records 6:16 47:3 recounted 10:12 recounting 10:13 recreating 33:11 45:7 repetitive 10:25 report 49:8 reported 1:17 reporter 1:17 4:7,9 4:12 24:2 48:18,20 49:1 reports 38:23 represent 28:23,24 29:4,14 representation 3:20 representing 3:19 represents 29:5 request 47:4 require 32:25 reservations 30:16 residential 35:14 resolution 33:21 44:19 resolve 44:12 respect 19:1 respectful 4:18 response 27:20 restaurant 35:13 restrictions 6:17 retained 13:1 richard 13:4 right 5 :3,12,12 7: 8:5 14:13,17 15:6 15:13 19:8,16 23:11,24 24:5 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 58 25:15 26:13 28:12 28:16 33:17 34:5 34:16 36:16 38:18 39:9 41:18,22 42:1 44:25 46:11,22 47:2,3,8,23 48:1,5 48:14,16 rights 14:1128:16 30:17 ring 24:6 ringers 2:3 ripe 33:20 1 risks 36:23 roadway 8:18,19 roberts 1:17 49:6 49:21 roll 31:17 room 1:15 4:13 35:4 ruled 14:15 ruling 4:22 28:13 run 3:25 40:9 running 14:4 37:7 runs 29:2 s s 2:1 3:1 salary 30:14 sale 25:23 sales 27:3 saw 15:9 45:3 saying 12:19 26:23 26:24 27:17 44:11 says 6:5,6 7:11 8:14 13:23 19:24 26:17 scott 1:918:20 seasoned 13:11 9 seat 1:3,4,5,6 second 12:1127:8 29:6,7 see 5:9 6:17,24 7:7 15:13 17:2 21:13 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [see - things] 35:2 41:19,24 43:8 seeing 5:5 37:5 sell 25:19 27:1,2 43:25 44:1,2 selling 23:13 24:19 senior 48:4 sense 14:24 session 1:1 3:5,12 48:22 set 20:14 31:18 settle 31:8 settlement 3:6 33:2 33:4,21 41:7,11 shade 27:14 shape 28:5 shock 21:21 showed 10:19 26:14 showing 5:217:10 46:7 shows 5:23 shut 47:9 sides 10:3 sidetracked 37:9 signature 49:20 significant 5:22 signs 6:15 sir 38:8 situation 29:13 31:12 six 25:24 40:24 41:2 size 21:23 35:11 small 13:13,14 22:1 22:14 46:17 small's 37:2 smart 20:11 soften 39:11 sold 26:3 35:13 somebody 31:7 800-726-7007 r somewhat 19:5 stenographically sophist 7:1 49:7 sophisticated 6:10 6:19 sorry 7:4 37:9 40:10 46:19 sort 12:6 28:9 33:24 42:10 43:6 45:7 sound 11:16 sounds 15:16 31:12 source 28:24 south 23:24 speak 36:3 special 7:14,15,23 speculate 27:23 speculation 26:2 speech 29:1 split 37:17 sprinkles 1:13:8,9 5:7,19 6:5,9 8:7 9:9 10:18 11:15 27:1 27:15,16 39:24 45:8,14 square 20:16,16 26:11,15 standard 12:15 standing 9:10 standpoint 6:9 8:7 43:22 start 19:4 47:24 started 44:15 starting 4:6 starts 9:18 state 7:16 8:2,4 9:7 49:3,6 state's 8:4 status 4:2,2111:6 13:16 stenographic 49:10 step 11:4 stephen 1:13:9 sticker 21:21 sticks 45:10 stormwater 6:25 32:1 33:7,9 story 22:10 street 1:15 2:3 5:11 5 :24 6:14,15 9:24 16:20 17:3,5 23:25 24:5 strength 15:9 strict 14:9 structure 8:25 9:1 stuff 20:14 39:6 48:16 subject 6:119:25 subrogation 28:8 substantial 34:13 sucked 40:12 suggest 44:6 suggests 31:4 suit 9:10 suite 2:3 summary 10:3 13:9 36:18 support 41:15 supreme 6:2 sure 16:24 18:16,18 18:21 22:5 27:9 30:24 38:21,25 39:5 45:25 46:1 47:16 surrounding 19:16 surveying 8:21 surveyor 8:14,20 suspect 40:8 swear 12:12 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 59 t t 2:2 tag 31:8 take 13:10,20,25 21:19 23:4,5 34:9 36:2 40:9,18 41:13 47:12 taken 1:12 3:20 11:14,20 12:10 15:23,24 17:25 18:9 20:5,10 28:14 29:16,19 30:10 36:24 takes 23:1,2 talk 3:5,8 7:13 13:19 15:13 24:15 30:12 34:6 48:16 talked 42:7 talking 5:13 6:23 24:2,8,23 25:5 41:4 42:12 47:24 tallahassee 8:1,1,2 tangent 28:22 technical 8:19 11:12 tell 6:20 10:16 12:5 12:18 16:13 29:10 29:11 33:23 34:21 45:1 telling 20:24 testimony 27:16 thank 48:20 theirs 21:20 theories 10:23 theory 31:5 thing 12:8,11 14:1 19:4 29:3 37:10 things 9:1211:6 12:17 18:19 20:25 21:14 23:7 36:23 44:18 47:13 305-376-8800 [think - worst] think 3:11,14 7:24 8:8 14:18,22 16:19 17:6,9,10,20 24:8 24:22 25:10 26:1 28:5,6 30:2,8 31:7 31:7,9,9 33:16 34:10 36:12 37:3,8 37:12,18 38:12,12 38:14 39:9,10,22 39:24,25 40:17 41:6,14,17 42:4,14 43:4,9 44:10,11,12 44:14,24 45:7,23 46:2,24 48:10 thinking 28:3 39:16 40:7 thinks 26:22 third 34:23 thought 24:13,17 25:8 31:12 41:4 45:13 three 8:1122:9 24:23,24 25:9,9,10 26:5 43:23 threw 19:20 41:3 throw 28:2135:20 37:22 42:1 throwing 15:21 tie 44:19 tim 1:7 time 1:13 3:18 4:5 4:7,11,19,25 7:20 9:4 12:25 13:8,17 13:21 14:1,4,18,21 24:3 32:9 45:3 46:23 47:8,8,12 timeline 20:9 times 3:4 27:2 timothy 1:3 title 27:4,10,18 today 10:7 26:21 told 6:12 8:8 9:13 11:6 13:2 17:2,6 30:1 top 21:13 toss 15:12 tossed 40:6 total 41:5 transcribed 4:14 transcript 49:9 treat 37:20 treated 8:24 tremendous 13:15 trespass 10:24 30:7 30:8 trial 10:5 14:23 37:23 tried 27:1,2 43:25 true 18:2 37:21 49:9 try 31:8 32:15,25 33:1 trying 31:6 32:23 35:11 46:25 turn 46:25 turned 40:12 turns 11:2 twice 29:144:3 two 3:14 5:14 6:24 8:9 10:25 21:11 25:10 27:1 34:10 35:22 36:23 40:4 42:24 44:22 45:20 46:14 twofold 8:22 type 24:19 48:18 typically 4.19 32:21 25 5.26. 31:17 3 35:17 3 42:23 4 45:16,24 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 60 u 48:18 um 12:22 18:7 22:3 Wanted 45:25 46:1 24:25 40:5,16 Wanting 35:22 underneath 25:13 wants 43:5 25:14 warranty 5:20 understand 25:18 water 7:6 9:17,18 25:25 9:20 10:17,17 understanding Waterline 7:10 9:21 25:4 41:11 43:10 18:10 understood 46:2 way 5:1 6:6,19 8:18 underwater 7:16 9:3,17,24 18:9 7:20 19:17 20:9 21:21 underwear 40:9 26:25 27:11 32:16 unfortunately 46:3 1 34:2,4 35:2 36:12 units 21:11 24:19 43:2 45:17 47:20 26:3 48:13 use 12:8,16 19:11 We've 4:22 18:9 19:18 20:23 34:10 43:4,5,12 45:23 v weakness 15:2 value 21:19 23:14 !weeks 42:24 23:15,15,16 26:11 went 7:25 37.11,24 38.2 vice 48:4 victoria 6:25 23:10 23:11,23 24:4 25:8 victory 7:3,4 32:5 33:7 view 21:12 22:10 w w 1:15 wait 29:20 42:23 walk 45:2 48:15 walking 44:24 want 4:18,25 5:2 14:2,18 23:23 24:4 13 27:23 4:18 35:2 7:13 42:2 3:9,22 47:10,10 west 7:20 8:15 wheel 47:6 willing 33:22 34:5 41:10 win 31:11 window 33:24 wish 26:15 46:18 wondering 22:3 word 31:2 'words 32:9 work 4:25 13:15 30:21 32:2,21 33:1 34:1 38:22 43:8 45:25 47:13,18 worked 30:20 works 9:17 37:16 worse 42:18 worst 26:22 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 [worth - zoning] worth 37:12,13 44:23 45:4 wrong 8:13 19:14 39:21 y yard 23:20 yeah 14:24 17:6 22:8 25:1,22 28:12 30:12 35:17 36:11 38:3 41:16,22 42:22 43:14 44:16 44:21 year 48:3 yellow 5:14 yep 42:21 z zoned 19:17 zoning 21:5 22:16 23:19 Veritext Legal Solutions Page 61 800-726-7007 305-376-8800 FLORIDA RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE Rule 1.310 (e) Witness Review. If the testimony is transcribed, the transcript shall be furnished to the witness for examination and shall be read to or by the witness unless the examination and reading are waived by the witness and by the parties. Any changes in form or substance that the witness wants to make shall be listed in writing by the officer with a statement of the reasons given by the witness for making the changes. The changes shall be attached to the transcript. It shall then be signed by the witness unless the parties waived the signing or the witness is ill, cannot be found, or refuses to sign. If the transcript is not signed by the witness within a reasonable time after it is furnished to the witness, the officer shall sign the transcript and state on the transcript the waiver, illness, absence of the witness, or refusal to sign with any reasons given therefor. The deposition may then be used as fully as though signed unless the court holds that the reasons given for the refusal to sign require rejection of the deposition wholly or partly, on motion under rule 1.330(d)(4). DISCLAIMER: THE FOREGOING CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF APRIL 1, 2019. PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE STATE RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION. VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS COMPANY CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENT Veritext Legal Solutions represents that the foregoing transcript is a true, correct and complete transcript of the colloquies, questions and answers as submitted by the court reporter. 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