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07-03-2001 Regular Meeting• • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 The meeting of the Planning & Zoning Commission was called to order Tuesday, July 3, 2001, at 7:00 P.M. by Chairman Frank Caputo. Members present were John Atwater, Richard Tegen, Dave Lange, David Pape, Gene Crossley, John Carlson, and Joseph T. Bonjorn. Also in attendance were Barry Brown, Director of Planning, Mimi Ogden, Planner I, and Jane McAllister, Planning Technician II. City Attorney, Robert Guthrie was absent. MINUTES of the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting held June 5, 2001 were approved as written. City Councilman Jeff Biddle presented Ordinance 308-C -Historic Preservation. The Ordinance establishes a Historic Preservation Committee, creates designation criteria, establishes the powers and duties of the committee, defines the appeals process, and outlines procedures. A copy Mr. Biddle offered to answer questions concerning the Ordinance. David Pape asked if anyone had organized an historical society yet? Mr. Biddle replied that none had been formed yet, but that they would be working with the City to do an inventory of historical structures. He further stated that this Ordinance is the first step and that once this is in place there might be grants available, and the City would be like to be able to hire someone to come in and do an inventory of the historic structures. Gene Crossley asked if the committee would designate the structures to be designated as historic structures or would the property owner have to apply for that designation. Mr. Biddle replied that he would like to see the requests for historic designation come from the property owners. John Carlson asked if established would this committee generate additional revenues for the City. Mr. Biddle replied that property values would likely increase in a designated historic district. David Pape made a motion to approve the Ordinance. Gene Crossley seconded the motion. Frank Caputo asked of there were any comments from the public. Gloria Meadow, 3607 Fairfield Drive, Clermont, FL was sworn in. She shared the information that the Jenkins Auditorium was the first Publix Supermarket in Clermont, and that the neighborhood center was the first library. • • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page - 2 - Rose Biddle, 1611 3~d Street, Clermont, was sworn in. Mrs. Biddle is the program manager for Clermont Main Street. She said that Clermont was designated at a Florida Main Street last August. The goal is to preserve the historic value of the City. Mrs. Biddle said the goal is to protect the past and promote the future and this Ordinance will help to do that. The vote was unanimous in favor of the Ordinance. 1. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPLICANT: Presco Associates, LLC OWNER: John and Anne Adams Family Limited Partnership REQUEST: For a Conditional Use Permit to create a Planned Unit Development that will consist of a shopping center with up to 160,086 square feet of retail space, four (4) out parcels, and professional office and restaurant uses. GENERAL LOCATION: This property is located at the northeast corner of U.S. 27 and Citrus Tower Blvd. SIZE OF PARCEL: +/- 30 acres EXISTING LAND USE: Undeveloped. FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT: The subject property is in the Undeveloped District - 5 (UD-5) land use district and the requested use is an allowable use with the approval of a Planned Unit Development (PUD). FUTURE LAND USE CLASSIFICATION: The subject property is classified as Commercial. The requested use is allowed in the Commercial land use classification. EXISTING ZONING: C-2 Commercial District. A shopping center is a conditional use in the C-2 zoning district. Planning Director, Barry Brown, introduced this request by saying that the applicant is proposing to develop a commercial center that will include a grocery store, general retail, commercial out parcels, professional office space, and restaurant uses. The project is appropriately located at the signaled intersection of a principal arterial, U.S. 27, and a collector roadway, Citrus Tower Blvd. Planned roadway improvements to Citrus Tower Blvd. include widening to a three-lane section from U.S. 27 to Grand • • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page-3- Highway. The three-lane section will provide turn lanes into the subject property and allow for free flow of traffic in the travel lanes. In addition, Grand Highway will be realigned to create a T-intersection with Citrus Tower Blvd. These roadway improvements will provide the roadway capacity necessary to accommodate the proposed development. The project meets the criteria of the land use designations and zoning district. Mr. Brown said that Staff recommends approval of the request and wished to call attention to the following conditions: Transportation Improvements, Section 4, item 4. Mr. Brown stated that after a meeting with Lake County he would like to amend this item to read as follows. "The permittee shall contribute its fair share of costs of improvements to Citrus Tower Blvd and to the intersection of U.S. 27 and Citrus Tower Blvd. as determined by Lake County and the City of Clermont". Mr. Brown brought the Commission's attention to Section 8, Architectural Design Standards. He stated he wanted to add a third condition to the Miscellaneous section as follows: 3. Chain link fencing shall be prohibited and that any fencing around water retention areas and other areas shall be ornamental metal fencing. John Atwater asked Barry Brown to explain what changes there will be to the entrance ways off of Citrus Tower Blvd. Mr. Brown replied that there too many driveways in that section of the roadway, and that the driveway behind the grocery store has the potential to create conflicts. Therefore it may need to be eliminated or at a minimum be restructured to a right out only. Gene Crossley asked if there were any variance requests with this request. Barry Brown said that there were not. David Pape asked if there would be trees planted in the islands in the parking area. Barry Brown said that there would be two trees in each island. Richard Tegen asked why there was discussion about improvements on U.S. 27, when it is scheduled to be widened. Mr. Brown said that Staff hasn't been able to get D.O.T.'s plan yet. • u CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page - 4 - Gene Crossley asked if there were improvements scheduled for eastbound traffic coming toward U.S. 27 off of Grand Highway to the west. Barry Brown said, "none have been located as of yet, but this will be addressed during a meeting with the County on July 19, 2001. Frank Caputo mentioned that there were 4 out parcels addressed in the CUP and that there are 7 out parcels shown on the site plan. Barry Brown said that the 4 parcels near U.S. 27 were the ones referred to as out parcels. The others on the east side of the project are not considered out parcels. Frank Caputo said he read the traffic study in reference to the intersection and implored all involved to look at the impact on U.S. 27 and S.R. 50 of all the development that is being approved. He further said the State has suggested a traffic impact analysis based on the maximum development potential is suggested for Lincoln Groves and the Hillary property, Daryl Carters land. Barry Brown said that is in reference to a Comprehensive Plan Amendment we transmitted in February, and that it was addressing some properties we had changed the land use on, and that those properties are on U.S. 27 south of S.R. 50. He added that traffic studies are typically done when the property is about to be developed. Frank Caputo then asked why there was no water consumption analysis included in the information. Joel T. Arnold, 7208 Sandlake Road, Suite 304, Orlando, FL. was sworn in. Frank Caputo asked Mr. Arnold how much water would be used per day at the shopping center once it is fully occupied. Mr. Arnold said that 10% of the overall square footage in gallons per day or 1600 gallons per day would be used at the shopping center. Richard Tegen asked Mr. Arnold if there were 4 restaurants what would be the overall usage per day. Mr. Arnold replied probably around 750 to 800 gallons per day. Bob Shakar, 230 Mohawk Road, Clermont, was sworn in. Mr. Caputo asked Mr. Shakar to address the water consumption issue. • • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page-5- Mr. Shakar said that the engineers figure out water consumption. He said he was not asked to supply specifics on that subject. Mr. Shakar went on to say that he submitted a comprehensive site plan and that he has worked with the City and County Staffs to work out any problems. Frank Caputo said that the traffic analysis and the site plan that was submitted were very comprehensive, however, the water consumption analysis is needed as well. Joel Arnold then submitted a version of the conditions amended by him that he believes should be included in Staff's recommendation as follows: Amend Section 2, Item 4 in reference to going dark. Mr. Arnold said they wish to remove that stipulation altogether as the developer has no control over that. Frank Caputo explained to Mr. Arnold that the City did not wish to have any large store such as a grocery store stand vacant. Mr. Arnold went on requesting that in Section 4, item 4 be removed. Also, that item 5 be amended to read as follows: " If signalization is determined, warranted, and necessary, at the intersection of Citrus Tower Blvd. and Grand Highway, the permitee/developer shall pay a pro rata share of signalization improvement costs per Lake County. " Mr. Arnold went on to request that item 8 read as follows: Prior to any certificate of occupancy in Phase I I, paved access shall be provided across Phase I I to connect Phase I with Division St." Section 6, item 4 should read "Parking lot islands shall be a minimum of 100 sf in area and 10 ft. in width including the curb." Mr. Arnold then requested a change in the verbage to read "A minimum of 40% if the required trees, including the eastern buffer, shall be canOpV trees." With regard to Signage, Section 7, item 1, shall read "All signage will comply with the criteria set forth in the City of Clermont Land Development Code for shopping centers and our parcels." Section 8, item 3 to read as follows" The loading areas shall be properly screened from public view. All storage of pallets, cardboard boxes, etc. shall be within screened enclosures." In Entryways, comment (a) to read as follows: "Each large retail establishment shall have a clearly defined customer entrance featuring no less than two (2) of the following:" Barry Brown strongly disagreed with the proposed changes, and stated that he would not recommend that the conditions be so amended. John Carlson asked if this would close negotiations with the developer. • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page - 5 - Barry Brown answered that the City would continue to consider suggested revisions by the developer. Mr. Carlson then suggested that the wall separating the development from neighboring residential areas be more than 6 feet in height, so that noise and lights from truck traffic do not disturb the neighbors. Barry Brown said he would look into that suggestion. Frank Caputo opened the floor to the public. Jim Purvis, 4206 Hammersmith, Clermont, FL. was sworn in. Mr. Purvis stated that the City of Clermont is over its allocation from St. Johns for water use. He asked the Commission to deny approval of any further water use. Gloria Meadow, 3607 Fairfield, Clermont, FL, was sworn in. Ms. Meadows said she experienced a water leak at the water meter due to lawn mowers running over the pipe. She suggested that the use of water by developers be taken very seriously. Frank Caputo asked if there was anyone else from the public who wished to speak, there was no one and he returned the floor to the Commission. Richard Tegen asked Mr. Shakar if he made the statement that Tamara and Preston Davis said we had plenty of water Mr. Shakar said that he paraphrased and that was actually said was that for the area where the project is located there is adequate capacity for both water and sewer for the project. Frank Caputo added that that was assuming that St. Johns is going to issue what we are requesting. Richard Tegen asked that the condition to start construction within two (2) years be changed to one (1) year. Barry Brown said the request should be approved or denied subject to the conditions. John Atwater made a motion to table the request until there is a final flan and a water consumption analysis, postponed to a date certain of August 7, 2001. The motion was seconded by Dave Lange. • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page-6- Frank Caputo asked if there was any discussion on the motion. John Atwater said that the roads are not finalized, the out parcels on the east side of the project are not final, and the entire plan is not complete enough to approve. Bob Shakar said that he appreciates the concerns of the Commission but that if this parcel was to be developed as a residential parcel at four (4) units per acre, the water consumption would be Twenty-one (21) million gallons per year. It will be approximately four (4) million for this use, and he said the delay is not appropriate based on water consumption. The vote to table the request until August 7, 2001 was approved 6-2 with David Pape and Gene Crossley voting nay. 2. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPLICANT: Lennar Homes. OWNER: Lennar Homes REQUEST: For a Conditional Use Permit to amend the existing Kings Ridge PUD to allow for the construction of a multifamily residential development at the northeast corner of US 27 and Kings Ridge Blvd. GENERAL LOCATION: The property is located at the northeast corner of U.S. 27 at Kings Ridge Blvd. EXISTING LAND USE: Undeveloped FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT: Undeveloped District -7 (UD-7). FUTURE LAND USE CLASSIFICATION: Mixed Use Classification I. SIZE OF PARCEL: +/- 19.81 acres. EXISTING ZONING: Kings Ridge PUD with professional office use at this location. The Kings Ridge PUD will need to be amended to allow for multifamily at this location. • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page-7- Barry Brown, Planning Director, introduced this request by saying that the applicant is proposing to construct a 258-unit multifamily seniors independent living apartment community along with related amenities and a 5,000 sq. ft. of professional office space at this location. Currently, the Kings Ridge PUD only allows for professional office use on this site. Therefore, the Kings Ridge PUD must be amended to allow for multifamily residential development at this location. The applicant is requesting multifamily use on Parcel "D", as depicted on the map enclosed with the application, and a reassignment of professional office square footage to Parcels G and E. This project meets the criteria of the land use designations and is an appropriate project at this location. Richard Tegen asked how it is possible to move the professional office use from Parcel D to Parcel E, when Parcel E is already planned. Barry Brown answered that there is a vacant piece of commercial in Parcel E that could accommodate the professional office. John Atwater asked if the zoning addresses the height of multistory structures. Barry Brown said that code allows for construction of 35 feet of habitable space, up to a total of 45 feet architectural. Frank Caputo asked if the applicant was present and would like to address the Commission. The applicant was not present. Frank Caputo then opened the meeting to the public. He asked all those who wished to speak to rise and be sworn in. Louis Avese, 3811 Scarborough Court, Clermont, said the water usage should be considered very strongly. He added that the entrance to the proposed multifamily project would force people going into that community to cross traffic that is exiting Kings Ridge on Kings Ridge Blvd. Rhoda Afelback, 3791 Eversholt ,Clermont, FL. is concerned about the traffic flow which she said is inconvenient now and will only get worse. She would like to see a traffic light at U.S. 27 and Kings Ridge Blvd. Ms. Afelback also said that water was a major concern. She asked that the request be denied. Lauren Hoffman, 2153 Winsley St, Clermont, FL agreed with the previous speakers but her main concern was that the proposed development may not be for seniors citizens and she would like it to officially have that designation. • • CI T Y OF CL ERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -8- Gail Ash, 3912 Payton Court, Clermont, FL. Ms. Ash said that the residents of Kings Ridge were asked to approve the change in zoning for this parcel from commercial to professional and they did so. She asked that the Commission leave it the way it is and deny the request. Jim Purvis, 4206 Hammersmith, Clermont, FL, said the residents accommodated Lennar by allowing the change from commercial to professional for the parcel in question. He wants to see it stay the way it is and asked the Commission to deny the request for a change in the zoning. Sy Holter, 4243 Newland St. said this parcel is not conducive to multifamily and asked that the Commission not allow the change in zoning and deny the request. Joel Hinsman, 3618 Eversholt St, Clermont, FL is concerned with the density, the traffic conditions, and the fact that residents of the proposed multifamily units will have access to Kings Ridge property. He said the residents of Kings Ridge pay for the streets, and for having a private gated community. Mr. Hinsman also said that three (3) story high buildings will be an eyesore. He asked the commission to deny the request. Robert Laff, 4202 Hammersmith, Clermont, FL does not think people who would occupy the proposed multifamily facility should have access to a private, gated community. He asked that the Commission deny the request. Robert Hearney, 3716 Fairfield, Clermont, FL. Agrees with previous speakers, and added that this request should be dismissed for failure of the applicant to appear. Frank Caputo asked if there was anyone else in the public who wished to speak, there were none. He then returned it to the Commission. Gene Crossley made a motion to deny the request. David Pape seconded the motion. The vote was unanimous to deny the request. 3. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPLICANT: Active American Communities, Inc. OWNER: Lennar Land Partners, LLC REQUEST: For a Conditional Use Permit to construct a 258 unit multi family seniors independent living apartment community along with the related amenities and 5,000 sq. ft. of Professional Office. • • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -9 - GENERAL LOCATION: The property is located at the northeast corner of U.S. 27 and Kings Ridge Blvd. EXISTING LAND USE: Undeveloped FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT: Undeveloped District-7 (UD-7). FUTURE LAND USE CLASSIFICATION: Mixed Use Classification I. Barry Brown, Planning Director, introduced this Conditional Use Permit by stating that the applicant is proposing to construct a 258 unit multifamily seniors independent living apartment community along with related amenities and a 5,000 sq. ft. of professional office space. The PUD for Kings Ridge will need to be amended to allow for multifamily at this location. This project meets the criteria of the land use designations and is an appropriate project at this location. Patrick Law, Active American Communities Inc, 615 Crescent Executive Ct., Suite 120, Lake Mary, FL. was sworn in and requested a postponement. David Pape made a motion to postpone this request to a date certain of Au4ust 7. 2001. The motion was seconded by Richard Tegen. The vote was unanimous In favor of postponing. 4. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT APPLICANT: Greater Construction Corporation OWNER: Knapp Trust REQUEST: To amend the Conditional Use Permit for the Hills of Clermont PUD, Resolution No. 1203, to allow for a density of 8 units per acre on a portion of the PUD south of Hook Street and allow for commercial zoning on a portion of the PUD north of Hook Street. GENERAL LOCATION: On the west side of Hancock Rd, south if S.R. 50, north of the Greater Pines Subdivision. SIZE OF PARCEL:+/- 138.3 acres. EXISTING LAND USE: Undeveloped CITY OF CLERMONT • • MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -10 - FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT: Undeveloped District -6 (UD-6). The requested uses are allowed. FUTURE LAND USE CLASSIFICATION: Commercial and Residential. EXISTING ZONING: PUD zoning that limits density to 4 units per acre over the residential portion of the PUD. An amendment to the PUD is required to allow for multifamily density and to allow for additional property north of the realigned Hook Street. Planning Director, Barry Brown introduced this request by saying that the Hills of Clermont is an existing, mixed use PUD encompassing 138 acres of land that includes commercial property on SR 50 and residential property south of SR 50 on both sides of Hancock Road. At the time the PUD was originally approved, the proposed alignment of Hood Street was further to the north. At the request of Lake Co. and the City, the applicant agreed to realign Hook St. to the south. In so doing, a portion of Parcel #3 was separated from its parent parcel by the realigned roadway. In exchange for the realignment and right-of-way dedication, the applicant requested an increase in density on Parcel #4 from 4 to 8 units per acre in order to construct a town home project. In addition, the applicant requested commercial uses on Parcel #3. The requested changes for Parcels #3 and #4 were discussed with the Council in workshops that lead up to the last comp plan amendment submittal in February of this year. At the comp plan transmittal hearing in February, the Council agreed to the increase in density on Parcel #4 and to the land use change for Parcel #3. Mr. Brown wanted to highlight the following conditions: on page 7 condition 10, the right-of-way extension shall be dedicated by August 17, 2001, also on page 7, he wanted to delete item #12 which says "Ingress and Egress to all commercial properties shall be provided from Hook St. in order to facilitate the purpose and intent of the frontage/reverse frontage road concept and enhance measures for public safety and limited access management." On page 3, item 12, Mr. Brown wanted to add that parcels #3 and #4 will be developed pursuant to the R-3 zoning district criteria. John Carlson mentioned that parcel #2 was reduced from 8 units per acre to 6 units per acre. He wanted to know if parcel #4 was addressed. Barry Brown stated that parcel #4 was not addressed at that time. Dave Lange said that parcel 4 was set up for single family and wanted to know why it was changed? Barry Brown explained that the City Council increased density in exchange for the right- of-way for Hook Street. i ~ CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -11 - Dave Lange then asked what will happen to parcel #6. Barry Brown replied that it would be used for storm water retention and open area. Gene Crossley asked how many building sites were lost on account of the right-of-way for Hook St. Barry Brown said he did no have that information available to him. Frank Caputo asked if the Commission could approve the commercial part and not approve the multifamily. Barry Brown said he believed that would be possible. Frank Caputo then asked if the applicant was present and would like to speak. Bill, Kercher, Glatting, Jackson, 33 East Pine St, Orlando, FL and Hamp Conley, Greater Construction Corp, 1103 Kingsland Court, Altamonte Springs, FL were sworn in. Mr. Kercher said the request has been outlined by Barry Brown. He said they were interested in 8 units per acre. The residences are proposed to be two (2) story town houses. He said it is too early in the process to know exactly what they will look like. Mr. Kercher said that they have been working with neighboring property owners and the school board as well as the City to provide access to the school while working with the natural topography of the site. He said parcel #6 would be a shared retention pond with the school board. Mr. Conley said that Hook St originally went across the section line, and that the realignment made it necessary for Greater Construction to give up much more land for the right-of-way than was required with the original plan. David Pape asked if they had decided on a price range for the town houses and a target market. Mr. Kercher replied that it was not going to be an affordable housing development. Mr. Pape mentioned that the talk on the street was that it was going to be college housing. Mr. Conley replied to that by saying they were not going to be apartments or rentals, but would likely be owned by professional people. u u CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -12 - Mr. Pape then asked if there was an amenities list. Mr. Conley replied by saying that they are looking at a pool and a cabana. Frank Caputo asked how many bedrooms each unit would have so there could be some estimate of the water consumption. Mr. Conley said there will be no one bedroom units, and that there is only a limited market for two bedroom units so they will be mostly three bedroom units. Mr. Caputo asked if he could assume there would be four people per unit. Mr. Conley said that was not necessarily the case. That many people look for extra room for offices etc. Richard Tegen asked how many children they thought would reside there. Mr. Conley said there was no way of knowing. Frank Caputo asked if there was anyone from the public who would like to speak in reference to this request. Those who wished to speak were sworn in. Nancy Fullerton, 368 Montrose St. Clermont, FL said she couldn't see how the Commission could approve an application like this with such little information. She asked Barry Brown how bad the original alignment of Hook Street was. Barry Brown said it wasn't a well thought out alignment and the new one is clearly superior. The original alignment was too close to S.R. 50 and did not account for the topography of the land. Ms. Fullerton said she had no objection to the commercial area as it is a lower density. She asked that the Commission deny the request. Gail Ash, 3912 Payton Court, Clermont, FL. expressed concern with the traffic conditions that will prevail when the high school is opened and the remainder of this property is developed. She also asked the Commission not to approve the request at eight (8) units per acre. She said if the developers can't come up with a plan before presenting to the City they should not be approved. Jim Purvis, 4206 Hammersmith, Clermont, FL. does not approve of eight (8) units per CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -13 - acre. He added that there is no stated plan of construction, and asked that the Commission deny the request. Maggie Miller, 2721 Sunbury St., Clermont, FL was told when she purchased her home that the entire development was going to be single-family homes. Ms. Miller does not want the commercial right in the neighborhood. She says it should remain on S.R. 50. She also wanted to see parcel #4 go to 6 units per acre. Frank Caputo asked if there was anyone else who wanted to speak. There was no one and so the floor was returned to the Commission. Richard Tegen made a motion to deny the request for lack of information. John Carlson seconded the motion. Frank Caputo asked if there was any discussion on the motion. Gene Crossley asked if the motion could be amended to allow the commercial on parcel #3. Richard Tegen then amended his motion to approve the commercial on Parcel #3 and deny 8 units per acre on Parcel #4. John Carlson seconded the amended motion. Frank Caputo asked if there was any further discussion on the motion. Mr. Caputo commented that he was not comfortable voting for this project because of the lack of information, the water consumption issue, and he did not think it was a good idea to bring the commercial so far into the residential neighborhood. The vote was 6-2 in favor of the motion, with John Atwater and Frank Caputo voting nav. 5. LAND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS REVISIONS Mimi Ogden introduced the proposed changes in the Land Development Regulations in the form of Ordinance 310-C. David Pape moved to approve Ordinance 310-C .Gene Crossley seconded the motion. The vote was unanimous in favor of the changes. Frank Caputo started the discussion of non-agenda items by referring to a handout he gave out at the beginning of the meeting. See attached handout. • CITY OF CLERMONT MINUTES PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION July 3, 2001 Page -14 - David Pape asked Barry for his opinion regarding the information in reference to the drought the City is experiencing. Barry Brown said that he could not comment on all of the information, that Tamara Richardson, the City Engineer is handling the application for the Consumptive Use Permit. He said our application was being reviewed currently, and that the City is trying to get a Consumptive Use Permit that will take us to the year 2010. Barry Brown said that Ms. Richardson feels that within 2-3 months the City will have the permit. In reference to Mr. Caputo's handout, David Pape said the somewhat alarming information (ie; that we are facing litigation etc.,) may be a bit overstated. Mr. Brown said the City Engineer needs an opportunity to address the comments in the handout and to provide some context. John Atwater asked if the Commission members could send specific questions to Tamara Richardson ahead of time so that she could answer them at the next Planning & Zoning meeting. Barry Brown thought that was a good idea and encouraged the Commission to do so. David Pape said that he was in favor of conservation, but did not agree with using scare tactics. Dave Lange said the City needs to stay on top of the water issue. Frank Caputo told those present that according to information he has in the year 2020 we will be out of water. There being no further business the meeting was adjourned. Frank Caputo, Chair n - Planning Technician II